Episode #63 STOP Buying Starbucks Giftcards to Get Prospects to Listen to Your Sales Pitch...ft. Katie Penner

In today's episode of Revenue Reimagined, we're joined by Katie Penner, Head of Sender Relations at Sensodo.

The conversation revolves around the effectiveness of gifting in sales and customer success. Penner shares her passion for gifting as a way to build authentic connections and emphasizes the importance of personalization and relevance. She discusses how gifting can double win rates, increase second-call rates, and close deals faster. The role of customer success in gifting is also explored, with examples of effective gifting strategies during onboarding, appreciation, and renewals. Katie discusses automating gifting processes using tools like Sendoso and CRM systems, ensuring meaningful touchpoints without relying on sales reps to do it every time.

During today's show, Katie shares her secrets on:

- human connection in relevant gifting

- why gifting meaningful gifts closes more deals

- why NOT to use one size fits all methods like a Starbucks gift card

Any founder, entrepreneur, or business leader can steal the lessons Katie shares in this episode and use them for their own success.

Follow Katie - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathrynpenner/

PS - huge shout out to Sendoso for sponsoring our show.

We could not do this without you.

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Transcript

Adam Jay (00:01.231)
Welcome back to another episode of the Revenue Reimagined Podcast. While we have Dale here today, the real star of the show is that we have Katie Penner here, who is the head of center relations at Sendoso, one of my all time favorite human beings, not just because she knows how to gift, why to gift and when to gift, because she's actually hashtag gifting in Dale's little thing here, because she's actually one of the kindest human beings I know.

So we're gonna talk gifting, we're gonna talk kindness, we're gonna talk all sorts of shit. Katie, thanks for being here.

Katie Penner (00:35.801)
my gosh, thank you for having me. was, you we were talking off offline and I just got home late last night from a conference and you guys are the only two people in the world I would do this for. So I adore you both.

Dale Zwizinski (00:45.585)
the

Adam Jay (00:47.779)
Is it both of us or is it just me?

Dale Zwizinski (00:50.016)
It's just me.

Katie Penner (00:50.579)
We can, y 'all can argue about that offline.

Adam Jay (00:51.855)
Hahahaha

Alright, we will. Don't you worry.

Dale Zwizinski (00:59.276)
And we could talk about who's the better cook because we know Adam has no idea how to cook ramen. So we can, we can go down that path later on too.

Katie Penner (01:05.511)
Yeah, I will say that Adam didn't really know how to cook ramen. was true.

Dale Zwizinski (01:11.351)
Hahaha.

Adam Jay (01:11.803)
Man, man. I think we need like a real revenue reimagined cook -off. Because I promise you I will cook circles around you. But let's go. All right. We're not here to talk cooking. Come on, Dale. Stay on task.

Dale Zwizinski (01:15.458)
So.

Katie Penner (01:19.696)
we should run.

Dale Zwizinski (01:19.767)
UGH

Awesome. Katie, so we appreciate you joining. We know Sendoso is all about gifting. And one of the things that you've done really well is is bringing gifting to another level. What are like when you think about your role within Sendoso, like what drove you towards like this gifting czar? We'll call you the gifting czar.

Katie Penner (01:23.88)
You

Dale Zwizinski (01:51.212)
Like what drove you towards this place? Because it's kind of like in this marketing sales hybrid role. Like what brought you towards that role?

Adam Jay (01:51.323)
Ooh.

Katie Penner (01:51.378)
Okay.

Katie Penner (02:01.223)
Yeah, so I think it's a combination of things, right? I think on a human level, kind of where I fit in very well to Sendoso is Sendoso is an emotional response brand, right? That's what we're all about generating. And I take business very personally, which I think you are constantly told not to do. But I think...

Right? The way to stand out in today's environment is to really care about the human on the receiving end of your outreach and everything that you do. And so that's why I was so drawn to gifting and the art of it, because there's definitely a very wrong way to do it where you can come off briby and kind of icky. And then there's this really beautiful way to do it where you're able to form these like real authentic connections that supersede business and our daily roles. And so

I've become very passionate about that. And, you know, the kind of second layer to that question is, you know, how did I end up in this kind of sales X marketing role? And that comes down to experience, right? So I was raised in, in sales, my upbringing, as I like to call it was definitely sales, fell in love with the art of sales and, you know, statistics and, know, kind of model different things based on the research that I was doing.

Adam Jay (03:16.079)
Hmm.

Katie Penner (03:24.645)
And I actually carried those teachings into marketing, which I'm learning more and more that sales and marketing are so, similar. And that if we kind of combine those skillsets, that's when we see the best results. So that's why this kind of middle ground has really worked.

Dale Zwizinski (03:33.485)
Hmm.

Adam Jay (03:41.795)
you

Adam Jay (03:45.751)
I think you touched on a couple of things, Like sales and marketing are incredibly intertwined. And in a lot of orgs, as intertwined as they should be, they're still extremely, extremely segmented, right? So tying that to gifting, like there's several different philosophies on gifting that I've seen out there and I'm curious to dig deeper into Katie's philosophy on gifting. You have the marketing folks who, some of which are like,

Katie Penner (03:51.421)
Mm

Adam Jay (04:15.323)
Gift, top a funnel, send a gift to book a meeting like, here, I'll give you a $25 Starbucks gift card if you take a demo with me. You could tell by my tone of voice my thoughts on that type of gifting. Or if you complete a demo, you have the sales folks who are like, you send it every time after you do a demo. You have other revenue leaders who talk about responsible and timely gifting. When is the right time to send a gift? And how do you make it?

personalized and relevant so it's not a Starbucks gift card or a some swag that no one fucking

Katie Penner (04:53.693)
Right? Yeah. That's a great question. So hockey stack recently ran a report on the effectiveness of gifting and we actually did not have our hands in this at all. It was kind of, you know, nerve wracking. Yes, but it was kind of, we do, but it was nerve wracking, right? Because like, they're like, Hey, we're going to go look into all of our customers' data as far as like where gifting is most effective. Is it effective?

Adam Jay (05:05.147)
shameless plug for a Mirin team. We love them.

Katie Penner (05:20.467)
You know, and we essentially had to trust that our product worked. And what they found, yeah, and what they found was that gifting doubles win rates, six X's second call rates and closes deals 29 % faster. So based on those statistics and what was found in those, that report, we know that gifting works top of funnel, gifting works to accelerate deals.

Adam Jay (05:25.081)
Mmm, scary.

Katie Penner (05:49.459)
helps close deals faster. It can also help to expand your customer base and to tell your current customers that you appreciate them, which will help lead to more renewals and upsells and things like that. But it all comes down to the intentionality behind it. So you can't send that bullshit $15 Starbucks e -gift like you mentioned. That's not where we're going to be the most effective.

What's going to be the most effective is having that first call with somebody and asking instead of rambling on about the weather, which so many sales reps are guilty about, ask them what they're doing this weekend. That simple change in a question can help you to understand who someone is outside of their nine to five, who they are in their five to nine. Shout out to Alice for that. We are bringing Alice shout out to the acquisition, but.

Adam Jay (06:40.173)
I was gonna say, we're bringing Alice into play here.

Katie Penner (06:46.001)
you know, that five to nine, who are you in your outside of work life? And that gives me some intel so that I can go to our Amazon integration, send you something that's like highly curated for you. And as a, you know, as a result, we all of a sudden have way more rapport. You know, we're connecting on a human level. It's just little changes to your, your sales process or the questions that you're asking your prospects that can lead to this massive increase in that rapport. So, you know.

Adam Jay (07:16.099)
It's. It's so accurate right that we see people all the time who are you know it's raining here. hey Dale I see you live in Florida. How long have you lived there like I love the what are you doing this weekend because as you get to that now the gift is something and I'm going to spitball here but you mentioned that you're you know going to whatever golf tournament you know here's a little something to help you improve your swing whatever it happens to be.

Katie Penner (07:43.592)
Right.

Adam Jay (07:44.645)
Things like that that show that you hear me, you're trying to know me, you're trying to understand me and it's thoughtful and it doesn't come with to learn your swing and look forward to talking to you about the contract next week. I love it. Dale, what do I do on the weekend that you're gonna send me gifts? I'm kidding.

Katie Penner (07:56.626)
Yeah.

Dale Zwizinski (08:02.206)
Yeah. You know, Katie, I was talking to a friend of mine just this past weekend, and he's like a financial planner or financial advisor. And when we were driving up to up to Tampa, one of the things that he was thinking about was. Like he wants to do more gifting, but they're a smaller organization, it's like one or two guys in a shop. And he's like, and I was in he.

knows that we write content all about Sendoso and we're big Sendoso fans. But he said, you know, how do I get involved in Sendoso? So help the audience understand like where from a Sendoso perspective, like what's the size of the company? How can they get involved? What's the best way to start working with like a gifting company? Cause he said like, it takes me hours and hours and hours to think about it. I'm not good at it. So I'm part of the

Adam Jay (08:49.019)
Hmm.

Dale Zwizinski (08:59.276)
the Cooper Creek like wine, you know, Cooper's Hawk wine bottle thing. Like I just give out wine bottles, which seems kind of lame. But

Katie Penner (09:05.852)
Mm

Adam Jay (09:08.155)
It's always good when you give a wine bottle to an alcoholic too. I say that as someone who made that mistake very early in my career. It did not go over well, to be clear.

Katie Penner (09:10.674)
Yeah.

Katie Penner (09:14.727)
Yeah, wine bottles can be iffy, but that's a great question. So I think, you know, it's worth addressing the gifting platforms used to be pretty exclusive to, you know, mid market and enterprise businesses based on purely the cost of the platforms, right? It was pretty expensive. And we moved to a PLG model and we got a bunch of interest from SMBs or even independent contractors that run their own businesses.

And we decided to create a kind of starter plan to make gifting more accessible for businesses of all sizes or businesses that are just getting started. now Sendoso, which was once expensive and exclusive, is now, you know, we have a price point for everyone and we're a lot more inclusive. And, you know, we think that based on what we can do for companies that everyone should have access to that. And so it's really exciting to

you know, start, we're starting to sell and see more SMB deals and you know, how that can kind of propel these small businesses to, you know, gain more customers quicker. So it's really exciting.

Dale Zwizinski (10:26.776)
Small businesses may become big businesses.

Katie Penner (10:29.883)
Yeah, that's the hope. That's the hope. And it all comes down to the strategy, right? And I think it's so important to call out that like, you know, sendo so and this is a plug moment, but I do think it's so important when it comes to the topic of gifting. What differentiates sendo so comes down to three things. It's innovation, scale and expertise. And I want to put a bottom like, you know, I want to highlight that last word is the expertise factor. We hear from more and more

Adam Jay (10:31.586)
saying.

Katie Penner (10:59.517)
people who are switching over to Sendoso from competitors that, cool, they got a gifting platform, but then they were never told how to gift. And so the defaults at that point is, in exchange for your time, we'll send you X. And Sendoso teaches you how to not do this in a bribe -y way, where you can see these exponential results. And I think that that's really something that sets us apart.

Adam Jay (11:24.539)
I think it's it's interesting right because what you just said about a non bribe II way and there's so many folks who gift wrong where it does feel so ick and Gross and like I'm trying to bribe you and it's like it's time for the contract to be signed Let me send you a bottle of bourbon And listen, I love me a bottle of bourbon, but it's not going to influence me

Katie Penner (11:50.621)
You

Adam Jay (11:55.156)
at all. When you talk about expertise, break it down for me a little more. Like who should we be gifting to? Is it, you know, the signer? Is it the champion? Is it, you know, the person who opens up shameless plug to align the aligned room that you don't know is part of the buying process and suddenly becomes part of the buying process? Like how do you determine who to gift to? And then piggyback, I want to talk about how to like automate that.

Katie Penner (12:25.235)
Yeah, so as far as like who to gift to, right? I always like to gift to kind of everyone that touches the deal in whether it's a large way or a small way. And I think that what people think about gifting is that it's expensive and it has to be these like extravagant gifts like a bottle of bourbon. When actually with our largest data set, we see that the most effective gifts are $50 or below.

Adam Jay (12:41.829)
Hmm.

Katie Penner (12:53.619)
You know, I think about some of the gifts that I've sent. I've recently sent a CRO. His name is John McKillop. He's the CRO at Open Prize. Shout out to him. Love him. He'd mentioned that him and his wife were going to see Taylor Swift in a few months, right? Amazing. So I asked, of course, if he had any friendship bracelets, if they'd made the little bracelets to trade at the concert. They hadn't yet. So I went on Amazon, sent him a $15 friendship bracelet kit and

Adam Jay (12:54.136)
Interesting.

Katie Penner (13:21.425)
Now, every time we're on a call, he brings that up, right? And so it's sending these thoughtful, you know, gifts to every single person throughout is going to help, you know, kind of build up that championing throughout the org. So I always think it's nice. And again, it doesn't need to be expensive, but the more you can get and the more that you can create that rapport within a company that you're selling to, the better.

Adam Jay (13:30.554)
Hmm.

Dale Zwizinski (13:46.376)
So what I'm hearing through that thread is kind of like in the sales process anyways, more active listening. like in the sales process, we're listening or in the conversations, we're listening for buy signs on price, on feature functionality, et cetera, et cetera, but we're not listening for the personalized side of it. Like when you first jumping on instead talking about the weather, like, you

What kind of sports teams you like? Do you like football? Like having those conversations and then being able to say, this little thing may be worth it. Now, the second part, one of the things I think a lot of people struggle with, at least I did when I was originally starting to gift back in the day when I was at Oracle, because they would always want you to ship and give like all the Oracle branded golf balls and all that kind of stuff. But it was always hard to try to find where to ship them.

Katie Penner (14:36.317)
Yeah.

Dale Zwizinski (14:39.54)
And so one of the big things we get pushed back on when we talk about gifting and organizations is like, I don't know, are people in the office? How do I get their address, et cetera, et cetera. So, you know, talk to the audience a little bit about like debunking this myth on shipping.

Katie Penner (14:55.153)
Yeah, of course. So, Sendoso has address confirmation features. So, essentially, you're able to send a link. They can fill out their address in a very secure environment, and then they get to ship directly to them. So, we're able to kind of get around that. Now, another strategy, right, if you want to surprise someone with something on their doorstep, and I think that this is really interesting. So, one of our customers, is very successful with their gifting campaigns. And what they do is they actually...

Dale Zwizinski (15:00.237)
you

Katie Penner (15:23.175)
go to white pages, they find the addresses for their prospects. They put that into Cendoso and ship it directly to the houses, the addresses that they find on white pages. And they're able to surprise. So there's kind of two different avenues. I think, you know, of course, the white pages thing is kind of pit or miss. Adam has a strong feeling to this. can tell.

Adam Jay (15:35.675)
you

Adam Jay (15:39.534)
is this?

Adam Jay (15:43.075)
I just, I find it so ick. Like I'll give you a non -Sendoso example, but like no secret, like we were involved in a horrible car crash a while ago and like a lot of people want to do a lot of things and like someone on LinkedIn very kindly and nicely sent something to Zachary that showed up at my door, but like, like how did you get my, like I was icked that this person who I've never met like took the time to like track down my address, like little weird.

Right? love what I and listen, we use Sendoso a lot. And even if I know the address, I always send it in a link asking the person to put in their address because I don't want to make someone feel ick that I know your address. Like, I don't know. I don't even send Dale shit without asking him to like give his address over and over and over again. Or when I send Dale shit, it just doesn't show up because I didn't send it through Sendoso. But whole separate conversation.

Katie Penner (16:11.741)
Yeah.

Katie Penner (16:22.759)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank

Katie Penner (16:33.595)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Dale Zwizinski (16:35.025)
Yeah, we do have one those issues.

Adam Jay (16:37.189)
Dale, can I use our Sendosa budget to send you your birthday present? That would be a little awkward, right?

Katie Penner (16:42.179)
There you go. Just don't tell him. But no, think, yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think that Gong kind of does that play later on in the sales cycle when the rapport has been built, et cetera. you're right. Address confirmation is a way, again, to avoid that ick where these prospects are essentially opting in. Sindoso is a recognizable brand. They know that it's secure. No one's going to see their address. there's a comfortability factor there, which

works in our favor, which is great.

Adam Jay (17:13.435)
100%.

Dale Zwizinski (17:13.9)
And I think you may get away from some governance things as well. Like there's some people that just can't accept gifts. I think that becomes, depending on where they're working, what kinds of things are working.

Katie Penner (17:26.161)
Yeah, well, and there's really great strategies for that as well. So if you're selling into, you know, a restricted kind of, you know, government medical, whatever it is, there's always, you know, charity e -gift options that you can add as, you know, an alternative to maybe the bottle of wine that you're offering them, right? And that also helps when you're maybe selling to someone who doesn't drink alcohol. And, you know, so there's a lot of different

Dale Zwizinski (17:42.744)
Sure.

Katie Penner (17:53.203)
kind of capabilities that Sendozo has that accounts for those kinds of experiences as well.

Adam Jay (18:00.623)
And it's the way you set experiences. Like, I love that. Let's shift gears a little bit. So when you look at Sendoso, you've had a couple different roles. And I say that in a good way. But like, what's been your favorite and why?

Katie Penner (18:21.068)
gosh, what a good question. I would have to say...

Adam Jay (18:24.825)
Seadale, I ask good questions.

Dale Zwizinski (18:28.096)
It was only after the three or four good questions I already asked, so I have to warm you up.

Adam Jay (18:30.523)
Listen, we're 18 minutes in, I need a fucking win somehow.

Katie Penner (18:34.931)
At this point, you guys should just use your Sendoso budget to compete for my love and then we'll decide to use the better one. No, just kidding. But honestly, yeah, honestly, I would say that right now is my favorite. So this Head of Sender Relations role, which yes, that is my official title. This is kind of the culmination of everything that I have done prior in one role, which sounds insane.

Adam Jay (18:40.527)
Ooh, I like it.

thoughtful gifting.

Katie Penner (19:03.687)
But right now I am managing three BDRs who act as a much larger team. I am able to experiment with clay and scaled outbound that I believe we've made personalized, which is kind of contradictory, but I think that we've nailed it. I'm also able to talk to our customers a lot and to educate them on how to do gifting the right way.

And I kind of have my toes in the marketing pool and I get to do fun things like the trading card activation at Inbound next week. So I have all of these kind of outlets where I get to live my passion, which again, I'm so passionate and emotional about the work that I do at Sendoso that as a result, all these kind of outlets are really fun. And I love my role right now.

Adam Jay (19:59.259)
I mean, you do have an orange lava lamp behind you. Like, I don't think I've seen a lava lamp since I was like four, and I'm assuming the orange is very much Sendo. So I used to love lava lamps. Adam drinks Evan. I drink Evan. Who is Evan? What is Evan? Or does Dale just not know how to spell? no.

Katie Penner (20:02.088)
I do.

Katie Penner (20:10.61)
Me too.

Dale Zwizinski (20:13.918)
Evan Williams, but bourbon Evan Williams bourbon, you just can't.

Adam Jay (20:20.769)
No, I do not. We're having way too much fun with the tags under the names here, but I digress.

Dale Zwizinski (20:23.138)
Yeah.

Katie Penner (20:27.131)
It changes like every two seconds. I love it so much.

Dale Zwizinski (20:29.772)
Yeah

Adam Jay (20:31.429)
He needs to figure out something.

Dale Zwizinski (20:33.538)
So, so Katie...

Katie Penner (20:34.631)
But yeah, I saw this lava lamp in a store and it was orange and I had to have it. Yeah, context. Yeah.

Adam Jay (20:38.381)
I love it. I think it's awesome.

Dale Zwizinski (20:41.922)
So we talk about, like most people think about gifting in top of funnel. Let's talk about gifting post -sale. Like how does CES use gifting in a way to either, you know, save potential churn, increase on expansion, or just thank customers for referrals and references and stuff like that. Like how is it used on post -sale?

Katie Penner (20:48.839)
Mm.

Katie Penner (21:06.375)
Yeah, I think that's a great question. So kind of the first motion that we see there is onboarding. So we've all onboarded a tool and not wanted to watch the videos or go do the things because we're all incredibly busy, right? And so what I see most successful for onboarding is sending, you know, this is where like that coffee e -gift or the lunch e -gift can come in. Hey.

Let's do your lunch and learn kind of situation. Go get onboarded and have lunch on me during, right? Or hey, onboarding can be really boring. Enjoy a coffee on me to keep you awake while you go set these things up, right? So that can be kind of great motivation to kind of call it out. Onboarding isn't the most fun thing, but hey, we're here for you. We'll make it a little more fun with some coffee or some lunch, right? So that can be a great kind of...

Adam Jay (21:50.799)
Hmm

Katie Penner (21:56.997)
step into the relationship as you, you know, and help you start building that rapport with people. And then when it comes to appreciation, right, I think like CX Orgs as a whole should come up with like one to many campaigns semi -regularly to simply say thank you. Hey, it's really sweet partnering with you, having you as a customer, here's some cookies on us, right? Just as like little random appreciation drops, those go a long way. And then,

Dale Zwizinski (22:01.41)
Yeah.

Dale Zwizinski (22:23.991)
Hmm.

Adam Jay (22:24.559)
Mm -hmm.

Katie Penner (22:25.49)
you know, when it comes to renewals, right? I don't think that gifting should only happen at time of renewal. You can smell that from a mile away, right? So I think it's really important to consistently check on your customers and make sure that they're happy. And you can do that with a one -to -many email campaign, like, hey, we'd love to check in on you and the team, you know, talk about anything that you may be experiencing. I think that that can really help.

when it comes to that renewal, just that constant support and appreciation, which is so important today as retention is a main goal for a lot of revenue teams.

Dale Zwizinski (22:57.079)
Yeah.

Dale Zwizinski (23:00.994)
I want to give a interesting example of this. So we had a customer that we had just signed up and we were just onboarding and they, on the onboarding side, we had decided just to send them some cookies from Zendoso. The thing I, the thing we didn't realize is that they were having a board meeting like that week. And so they took the cookies into the board meeting. And so it made the board meeting, you know, fly through a bit, a bit nicer through the process. So.

Katie Penner (23:16.902)
Mm

Katie Penner (23:29.191)
Yeah.

Dale Zwizinski (23:30.273)
Those are just little things like, and you don't realize the serendipity side of things. Like even if you're gifting, there could be additional serendipity pieces that are happening that you don't really realize.

Katie Penner (23:40.113)
Right, well, and I think it all comes down to, and again, we talked about this in the sales cycle, but this can apply during the customer lifecycle as well, right? It's just those slight changes in questions on those touch -based calls. Instead of the weather, let's ask them what they're doing this weekend, right? Let's ask about something on the wall behind them to get some more intel so that we can do more thoughtful touch points, right? And so...

I think it just applies to every single stage and every role where you can leverage gifting.

Adam Jay (24:12.205)
I Dale's favorite new, yes.

Dale Zwizinski (24:12.246)
If you want Keeley's time, send her a lava lamp.

Katie Penner (24:14.995)
I'll take all the lamps. That'd be cool.

Adam Jay (24:19.555)
I think Dale's favorite new word is serendipity. feel like I hear that word so much now.

Katie Penner (24:26.493)
you

Dale Zwizinski (24:27.266)
So guess who's gonna be saying that next, Adam?

Adam Jay (24:30.349)
No, I'm not gonna be saying that word because I don't wanna say anything that you say. But I may or may not be sending you some serendipity shit through Sendoso. I digress. So we talked about gifting top of funnel, we talked about gifting bottom of funnel. How can you automate it? And can you automate it, Katie? Because I think there's a lot of reps who...

Dale Zwizinski (24:40.822)
Ha

Adam Jay (24:59.183)
for whatever the reason, aren't gonna think to like, now's the time to send a gift. Or do we send, like, when do I send a gift? Are there ways based on, you know, call it, whether it's HubSpot or Salesforce, like, there triggers that could give you a pop -up that's like, now is the time to send a gift, and here's the gift you should send.

Katie Penner (25:16.413)
Well, I'm so glad that you asked that question. Product may be working on something like that that may come out very soon. But yes, Cendoso has a ton of automations and integrations that you can leverage. A quick plug to a website that me and Mary Martin actually put together. If you go to cendoso .com slash playbooks.

you will see playbooks for every single integration partner that we have. So we're talking Salesforce, we're talking HubSpot, we're talking Eloqua, Marketo, all of the different tools and the different kind of triggers that those integrations will account for. So let's use Salesforce as it's the most universal kind of tool. So as a deal moves from stage zero,

to maybe meeting set to stage one, which for us is meeting accepted by AE, we can have a gift trigger at that point. So maybe it's cookies. Hey, it was sweet meeting you, excited to continue the chats about how Sendoso can help company. So there are examples about how you can leverage these automations through our integration partners.

But yeah, I mean, you hit the nail on the head, right? Like as a sales rep, you have so much going on. You have so many relationships to manage that onboarding a new tool can be hard. Even if it is a gifting platform where you can send gifts, know, life gets busy and I understand that. And so as a marketer buying Sendoso, right? Setting up these automations is going to ensure that you have those meaningful touch points going out and you don't have to rely on

know, AEs to go and do that every single time. Now, I do think that, you know, when AEs have the capability of sending something, you know, personalized through Amazon, that is going to hold the most weight. But there are certain situations, you know, maybe once the deal goes to finance and you're waiting on a signature, right, sending something with collateral that points back to the ROI, right, like that's a gift that I think should be triggered.

Katie Penner (27:23.027)
But there's different kind of moments for that automated action and different moments where I think that a more personalized gift strike the hardest. so that, again, going back to that expertise piece, that is the kind of insight that we can provide customers.

Adam Jay (27:32.602)
Mm.

Adam Jay (27:41.402)
I love it.

Dale Zwizinski (27:42.571)
I love it.

Adam Jay (27:44.229)
Do you? Or are you just copying me?

Katie Penner (27:46.178)
I'm

Dale Zwizinski (27:46.432)
No, just copying you.

Adam Jay (27:48.123)
OK, well at least we're honest about it. We like to have a little bit of fun here. Alright, as we as we wrap up, we've learned a ton of cool shit about gifting, when to gift, how to gift, what to gift, how to think about gifting. Let's go into some rapid fire. Here's the rules. 10 words or less. No more. Otherwise, Dale has a gong that comes out and bops you in the head through the screen.

Katie Penner (28:16.752)
Okay, well, I'm probably gonna get bonked

Adam Jay (28:19.771)
If you weren't in tech, what profession would you be in?

Dale Zwizinski (28:20.001)
You

Katie Penner (28:27.027)
Bartending.

Adam Jay (28:29.573)
That's what you'd want to do, bartend? I love it.

Dale Zwizinski (28:30.424)
interesting.

Katie Penner (28:31.283)
I often, think people in like tech, SaaS, this like crazy fast world, this is over 10 minutes, but I often daydream about like just a, you know, kind of simple job. So yeah, I'd go bartend for a little bit. Yeah.

Dale Zwizinski (28:42.296)
Turn off.

Adam Jay (28:44.379)
Sure, I'm with you.

Dale Zwizinski (28:47.062)
Yeah, Adam does it every day, so he turns off every day. what's the first app you check when you wake up in the morning?

Adam Jay (28:49.947)
Bye.

Adam Jay (28:53.583)
I drink every day because I work with Dale.

Katie Penner (28:59.335)
What'd you ask, Dale? I didn't hear your question.

Dale Zwizinski (29:01.196)
Yeah, over the annoyance -ness of Mr. J. What's first app you check when you wake up in the morning?

Adam Jay (29:08.185)
Mr. J, I like.

Katie Penner (29:11.015)
LinkedIn. I'm addicted.

Adam Jay (29:14.376)
Dale can only call me Mr. J from now on. Katie, early bird or night owl?

Dale Zwizinski (29:17.729)
you

Katie Penner (29:19.548)
Night Owl.

Adam Jay (29:21.049)
Hmm, how late?

Katie Penner (29:23.603)
I mean, it's late for me, like 11, 12. Not that late. I'm a mom.

Adam Jay (29:27.565)
Yeah, I'm rolling over for like

Dale Zwizinski (29:28.15)
What's, what's the most, yeah. What's the most used emoji in your work chats?

Katie Penner (29:34.41)
Ew, orange heart.

Adam Jay (29:37.583)
Favorite guilty pleasure snack.

Katie Penner (29:41.171)
cheese? Lots of it. like lots of it. Like the amount, the amount makes it guilty. I'm definitely a savory person.

Adam Jay (29:42.981)
That's not guilt. That's not guilty.

Dale Zwizinski (29:44.768)
You

Adam Jay (29:49.039)
I love, listen, I love a good cheese. I'm in.

Dale Zwizinski (29:49.499)
haha

Dale Zwizinski (29:53.282)
Final one as we wrap up, dream vacation destination.

Katie Penner (29:57.661)
Ooh, Bali. Wanna go. So bad. Take me. Someone buy me a trip to Bali and I'll demo any software.

Adam Jay (30:02.858)
Nice.

Adam Jay (30:07.131)
That's a thoughtful gift, a gift certificate for a trip to Bali. Katie, right? Thank you so much for joining. As I said when we started, one of my all time favorite humans, whether it's chatting podcasts or just chatting in general, it's always good to spend some time with you. Go check out Katie on LinkedIn, go check out sendoso .com. It is the only way we gift at RR. Thanks for spending some time with us.

Katie Penner (30:12.381)
Far too expensive, don't do that.

Katie Penner (30:35.699)
Thank so much for having me. You guys are delightful, as always.

Dale Zwizinski (30:38.882)
Thanks, Katie.