Episode #64 Fix Your Hubspot Bottlenecks: Focus on Leads that are Actually Interested! ft. Davey Warren

In today's episode of Revenue Reimagined, we're joined by Davey Warren, CEO at Pearagon.

Davey Warren is the CEO of Pearagon, a Diamond HubSpot Partner with over 1,000 successful CRM implementations. With extensive expertise in HubSpot, Davey specializes in creating innovative solutions that optimize business processes and drive growth. Outside of work, he enjoys the outdoors, international travel, pickleball, and golf.

During today's show, Davey shares his secrets on:

- the power of a correctly used CRM and all the benefits that come with it

- why you should govern your CRM and automation tasks regularly

- hiring specific roles, don't expect your VP of Sales to do everything

Any founder, entrepreneur, or business leader can steal the lessons Davey shares in this episode and use them for their own success.

Follow Davey - https://www.linkedin.com/in/daveywarrenjr/

PS - huge shout out to Sendoso for sponsoring our show.

We could not do this without you.

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🎁 Lastly, we have a gift for you!

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Transcript

Adam Jay (00:01.122)
Welcome back to another episode of the Revenue Reimagined podcast. We have a friend of the company and a friend of the show here today, the only resource that I personally trust with my HubSpot clients. But we have Davey Warren, who is the CEO and founder of Paragon Consulting, a HubSpot diamond partner, an expert in all things CRM, sales, marketing, we'll call it marketing. We'll get into that a little bit. But Davey, thanks for joining, man.

Davey Warren (00:28.066)
Yeah, I'm excited. It's good to be amongst friends.

Dale Zwizinski (00:30.844)
He thinks he thinks he's funny.

Adam Jay (00:31.448)
Well, one friend, one friend.

Davey Warren (00:34.629)
Dale and I are friends.

Adam Jay (00:38.07)
just like to give Dale, I spent the past three days with Dale and I did not have enough opportunity to give him shit, so I have to give him a little now that I'm back.

Davey Warren (00:45.464)
There you go.

Dale Zwizinski (00:46.994)
We need to allow Adam his creativity. This is his creativity time.

Davey Warren (00:51.886)
Let's go. Now it's good to be with you. I was just with a bunch of really good old college buddies. And so I'm kind of ramped up on a nostalgia of that. So it's good to be with other friends, especially in the business world. So

Adam Jay (00:52.014)
Yes.

Dale Zwizinski (00:53.702)
Cool.

Dale Zwizinski (01:02.458)
Ha!

Dale Zwizinski (01:06.562)
Awesome. So Davey, one of the things that we really like to dig into a little bit is why you created Paragon. Why, you know, going down this path of really trying to help organizations be better stewards, I guess, of their, of their CRM, setting it up properly. Like why start the business? Why this particular business? And why are you the expert in this, in this space?

Davey Warren (01:29.389)
Yeah.

Davey Warren (01:33.058)
You know, interestingly enough, I, I started this business kind of wanting to be a fractional VP of sales. And I ran into HubSpot with a number of my clients and because of my previous tenure and the reason I was doing that is because I had Salesforce experience and in my community, I already knew everybody that had Salesforce and I didn't want to compete against myself on who I'd sold before. So I got into this fractional role and as I was doing it, I just found that I'm really good at CRM.

Adam Jay (01:41.1)
Mmm.

Davey Warren (02:03.702)
I had done so much before. Why don't I just go back into more CRM? And I had started working on HubSpot with a number of clients and I was looking at their roadmap and I had never in like total transparency. I'd never thought about HubSpot being a competitor to Salesforce at the time. So this is six years ago. And I started looking at some of their tools and features and I'm like, man, we didn't even have these Salesforce still doesn't even have some of these features and functionality. And so I got.

Dale Zwizinski (02:28.102)
Hmm.

Adam Jay (02:29.006)
Crazy.

Davey Warren (02:30.926)
I got excited about that. I'm like, all right, well I'll play in this field because SMB will be really good. We'll build up a lot of SMB. And then I listened to Brian, Halligan talk about the future of HubSpot. And I went, I think this guy is going to try to compete with Salesforce. And I was like, that's kind of ballsy, right? Like you're a small marketing company, marketing animation, number one in the world, but you're going to go try to compete against Salesforce. And so.

Adam Jay (02:51.069)
Okay.

Davey Warren (03:00.076)
I said, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to hitch my wagon to this. I liked what he said. I liked what, where they were going. I liked the updates they were doing. And at the time, I mean, we didn't even have, we didn't even have custom objects. we couldn't even do coding. I could barely do APIs into HubSpot to do anything, but I, took a risk. I took a huge risk. And I started telling people that we were solution architects for HubSpot back when everybody, everybody said, we do,

Adam Jay (03:04.685)
Okay.

Adam Jay (03:11.652)
Mm -hmm.

Davey Warren (03:28.45)
we're agencies, we're marketing agencies. And I said, no, I'm not a marketing agency. I'm a CRM expert. And it just took off from there. And it kind of brought us to where we're at today where everybody is stealing my term of solution architect and CRM architect within HubSpot. We have a bunch of people jumping ship from Salesforce trying to work with HubSpot. And so it's been great. We've just been trying to stay one step ahead of that role at this point, but it's been.

Adam Jay (03:49.294)
you

Davey Warren (03:55.256)
The reason that I decided to move, going back to your question a little bit more, Dale, the reason that why HubSpot? Because ease of use is huge. We want to talk about things that remove friction from your processes. And so if you can take something and simplify it for the end user, the better the whole organization is going to be. Right? Nobody wants, when it becomes hard and everything is, it's difficult and people get in and they, you start hearing the complaints about what's going on.

Adam Jay (03:59.47)
Okay.

Dale Zwizinski (04:09.649)
Mm.

Davey Warren (04:25.292)
That's when you start getting friction within your organization, right? And we're not even talking about friction and what the customer journey looks like until we're just talking about organizational internally. You start trying to remove some of those, those barriers. And so I just felt that. And I have seen that HubSpot helps companies have less friction internally and what they're doing with it. And you get a lot more people saying, my gosh, I love this. Whereas even with Salesforce, it was kind of like a, yeah, I know.

Adam Jay (04:35.523)
Yeah.

Adam Jay (04:41.774)
Hmm

Dale Zwizinski (04:50.086)
Hmm.

Davey Warren (04:53.528)
People would say, I know Salesforce. People that are on HubSpot say, I love HubSpot. Definitely a different dynamic than what you hear from people.

Adam Jay (05:02.99)
That's a really good point and like where HubSpot users I happen to like Will spare you the history of like my Salesforce admin days and like I can play in both and I think that when you look at both what you said is right there is a ease of use a lack of friction Generally speaking people enjoy it. I've never heard anyone be like, my god. I love working at Salesforce. It's so easy. It's so great but that is not the

Davey Warren (05:29.294)
Only only only admins that have been doing it for 15 years, right?

Adam Jay (05:33.23)
Fair fair enough But dad data flow a proper CRM Unified reporting for sales and marketing and success. These are all things that are so important to businesses whether you are a Seed stage series a startup or whether you are a public enterprise company Having that information at your fingertips. It is really important when you are working with your clients, like how do you get?

the message to them and what are some of the strategies of like these silos that you've operated in forever, because that is typically how it works, isn't working and this is why you need to change it and how we can just start to go about doing that.

Davey Warren (06:17.74)
Yeah. I always still have cubbyism for this. start with the end in mind, right? So if you know what you want to report on, and I think that's important is that companies need to sit down a true organization that has the time and effort to really plan a good CRM, but look at what they want to report on. And so they'll sit down and say, we want to look at these metrics and then, and then ask the question of why, why do you care about how many phone calls Billy makes? And they're like, I just want to see that they're productive. Okay. Well, what

Adam Jay (06:23.756)
Mm -hmm.

Dale Zwizinski (06:46.886)
Yeah

Davey Warren (06:48.302)
What are some of the other? Let's see that Billy's working. Well, that's great. But then, but then what do you want to do? So Billy's making calls. So let's say you hire good employees and all, you know, your workforce of 20 guys, they're all making calls and they're hitting their, their metric. What's the next thing you're looking for? So just digging deeper to the why, right? Going to that why the Simon Sinek scenario of like, what's your, what is your why? And then what you're trying to produce, you're like, well, I want them to have good experiences with the client. Well, that means that you're going to keep metrics on

Adam Jay (06:49.326)
just want to see that Billy's working, man.

Davey Warren (07:17.442)
what your conversation was on. Did they hit all the points of what you want to drive to the potential customer or to the existing customer? So no matter which department it is, and we look at this data, one is data is cleaner now than it's ever been. Like people got smart and they went, we have this big challenge, data is dirty, right? And we're like, all right, well, how do we clean it? And so HubSpot's invested in a couple of things. One is they have a built -in DDo, right?

And then with that, they brought in other tools that helped to clean up any of the data, like the name, you know, if you have a lowercase letter and a name and it can uppercase letter, but more importantly, the enrichment of the data has come in and HubSpot has been doing this from the beginning. I can go into HubSpot. It's, in everybody's HubSpot and look at what technologies everybody's using. Cause it reads their website and says, Hey, they're using, you know, Hootsuite or they're using WordPress on their website. And that data is important. If you're trying to go after a company.

And I'm trying to look for somebody that might be using Salesforce. I can look at all the technologies that they're using from clients that I've dumped in. And then I can get, then they have, they just bought Clearbit. Clearbit tells you about people who visiting your website and more data enrichment. And so you're seeing this huge like, and then chat spot came out. Chat spot lets you research quickly using, you know, AI on a company. Give me the data, summarize the information that I have going into this so I can be more prepared.

Adam Jay (08:24.888)
Yeah.

Davey Warren (08:43.094)
It's the work that people used to do to warm up leads. When I was a dial for dollars guy, right? We used to sit and it's like, all right, let's go study LinkedIn. Let's go look at their website. Let's go do a little bit of research here. And then let's make a phone call. When I was a hunter, that's what I did. Now I just have to go, tell me about Dale. And I get a slew of information and then I call up Dale and it's

Adam Jay (09:04.814)
god, I would love to see what you get when you do that.

Davey Warren (09:07.79)
But, but, but you get, get, it's a lot of good data and then it takes, it's worth the next level now, because we all know that this is going on. I get a message every day, right? And I'm sure you have this in your inbox, right? You get that inbox message of, Hey, I just read your LinkedIn about this and that, or I noticed that you're trying to do these things, right? They're my favorite because I look at it I go, this is so automated. I, and I look for, and I'm open to original content that people send to me.

Adam Jay (09:32.686)
so bad.

Davey Warren (09:37.25)
That's still the key. So before something like that, I would have been like, my gosh, this is original content. Like five years ago or longer than that. I would be like, my gosh, this guy's actually looking at me. I'll respond because he did his due diligence. Right. Funny story, buddy of mine. I was in the translation business. He wanted to work with a guy at Adobe in the legal suite. He got a bunch of legal pad paper and he wrote three pages handwritten.

to this guy who didn't even know him, telling him why he should work with them, you know, about what our services were. That guy got the letter and he thought it was so funny, he filed it. He's like, who writes a handwritten three page letter about translation services? That guy went on to be a legal analyst for Apple and ran into RVP at a conference and said, wait a minute, I know you guys, I know your company. I've got this note from this kid.

Dale Zwizinski (10:21.26)
I'm

Adam Jay (10:24.438)
off

Davey Warren (10:35.628)
And he's like, it caught me off guard. I want to work with you guys. And they ended up signing a multi, multi -million dollar deal with Apple because somebody took, had the guts to write something on paper again, right? Just.

Dale Zwizinski (10:48.45)
Yeah. And think about that today. Like that, that would, that would get through the noise today because if you can get it to the people and they want to read it, that's it. Like there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that you can do to personalize. That's not automated. you know, marketing and sales destroy everything. I usually say marketing, because they, they will take something like, Hey, let's personalize and do this three by three. And then like, all of sudden you have like,

Adam Jay (11:14.808)
Yeah.

Dale Zwizinski (11:15.32)
Everyone writing the same piece of content because this is just going through some kind of technology.

Davey Warren (11:18.712)
Yep. I'm stuck under a rock. aren't you responding to me? Are you you stuck? I'm sorry. You stuck under a rock. Why aren't you responding to me? me and SLS and I'll get you out. Like, come on. Yeah, so I think I kind of answered your question, but I gave a little bit more than I probably should have. But it's a good path.

Dale Zwizinski (11:22.961)
Ha

Dale Zwizinski (11:28.539)
Yeah.

Dale Zwizinski (11:35.642)
Yeah. It's funny. As another side note and story, we have another friend of the show, Dale Dupree, and his team is the sales rebellion. And they'll send like empty boxes of donuts and say like, hey, while I was waiting for you to answer my email, I eat all the donuts. If you want to, you know, have a meeting with me, I'll send you a dozen donuts or something like that. So like, and they'll like ship that to them, right? So it's kind of like, it's interesting.

Davey Warren (12:04.078)
as long as it's their favorite donut shop, right?

Adam Jay (12:06.484)
Too shy.

Dale Zwizinski (12:06.566)
Could be, right, right. Yeah, you don't want to be sending something other than Dunkin' Donuts like in Boston or something. That would probably not be good.

Davey Warren (12:14.35)
That's right, absolutely. Dunkin' Donuts. There's like a thousand, there's a Dunkin' Donuts per 1 ,000 people, I think. And we looked it up one year, cause we were just like, are you?

Adam Jay (12:22.232)
That doesn't surprise me at all and you're going to you're going to Boston next week, right?

Davey Warren (12:26.892)
Yep, I leave on Sunday, gonna catch a Red Sox game while we're there too. So just excited for all the meetings, there's just so much going on there and excited.

Adam Jay (12:32.086)
Nice. Very nice.

Adam Jay (12:37.859)
Do you get like special, and I know I'm trumping over you right now, Dale, but do you get special treatment as like a, as a diamond partner?

Davey Warren (12:45.963)
yeah, a little bit.

Adam Jay (12:48.46)
Nice, listen man, when you go to a show or a conference, I guess is a better way to phrase it, like there are levels of enjoyment depending on where you fall in the conference. I have not been to Inbound, I did wanna go this year. I waited way too long, and I didn't get to go last year because it was the same time as another conference. I have heard that the content that is delivered is amongst the best you can get at.

Dale Zwizinski (12:49.028)
Yeah

Davey Warren (12:59.64)
Yeah.

Adam Jay (13:16.884)
any of, we'll call it, I'll use the broad term sales conference.

Davey Warren (13:21.026)
Yeah. I think it's amazing. The speeches they have. think what's really interesting is a lot of people come to these conferences, I think in the past, looking for like, tell me what's new that's coming out. And if you look at HubSpot, everything that's new just came out today. They're coming out with betas every single day. And so you don't have to wait. You can go look at their roadmap. the roadmap is so funny because you look at it and it's like, this is great.

Adam Jay (13:31.853)
Yeah.

Dale Zwizinski (13:41.137)
Hey.

Adam Jay (13:47.598)
It's crazy.

Davey Warren (13:50.67)
And there's just so much more that they could put in there because they have hundreds, thousands of updates. If you think about it this year alone on a business working day, what are we eight months in? So 160 days, there's been at least three updates. So, I mean, we're we're close to like five, six hundred new features have come out just this year. And I just got notification yesterday of another new one that came out. I was going in and looking at so I just see that it's just constantly.

growing to where they want it to be. Again, trying to make it easier for set up. So they've got now new objects for healthcare and for real estate. And then I hear, here's pre -made stuff for you. And so just trying to, yeah.

Dale Zwizinski (14:34.394)
Yeah. And I think that's, that's important why you need someone like yourself running this because on a day to day basis, they don't like someone that even an admin inside the organization, like a rev ops person who can't be so in depth into all the changes that are happening in HubSpot.

Adam Jay (14:36.58)
Healthcare is a big one.

Davey Warren (14:51.788)
Yeah, I think, I think there's a, and I want to make sure this is like brought up because it sounds really confusing. Maybe to somebody we talked earlier about like, Hey, HubSpot is easy to use. And then here we are like, you need an admin, right? It's a different.

Adam Jay (15:02.817)
I just wrote that down.

Davey Warren (15:06.968)
So, but, it is, it's like one of those things like, wait a minute, you just said it's complex. It's what I tell people is it's sophisticated. It's trying to keep up on what sophistication is coming out. So yeah, you need to have, you need to have an admin these days to help run it and put it together because it has thing it because somebody needs to help train the team on what's new and look at it and go, Hey, there's this new feature. Does it apply to us? Hey, there's this new feature. it apply to us? Billy, your job just got easier. You don't have to try to figure out what.

Adam Jay (15:30.583)
Mm

Davey Warren (15:36.974)
what you need to respond to in your service ticket. HubSpot just came out with an AI tool that summarizes it and gives you a recommendation on what you should say next. Based on all the FAQs that you have in your file and your blog information, it surmises that this is what's going on. So now it's... Yeah.

Dale Zwizinski (15:45.659)
Yeah.

Dale Zwizinski (15:52.262)
That's what I mean. And if they have clear bid or like, you know, there's, there's, there's functions and features that people are going to need. And that's not that you need an admin, but you need someone on top of it because they just can't stay on top of like all the things that they may potentially need. And you don't want to necessarily bring in another tech.

Davey Warren (16:09.954)
Yeah. Well, thankfully none of the stuff that they roll out just breaks your system immediately. I mean, it really does. And it just enhances it. Everything's like an enhancement, right? It's like kind of like, it's like having somebody it's like same day kitchen and bath. They just come in every day and remodel and it's done and you're like, wow, that was crazy. I remodeled my kitchen for four or five months is what it took. Right.

Dale Zwizinski (16:14.288)
Great. Well, that's the other side.

Adam Jay (16:33.71)
I was gonna say it wasn't same day, was it?

Davey Warren (16:35.778)
No, was not. yet here's HubSpot. I'm like, maybe I should have hired the same day kitchen backtips because at least it would have been done. Right. And I was like, I just want it done. And you can. And they just keep iterating on top of it. And that's kind of what's going on is we're just getting we're lucky enough in this new world to have these iterations. And with AI, things are going so much faster. I was watching Nova last night with my son and I was watching the AI. They just came out as brand new. Nova about AI and how we're going to.

Dale Zwizinski (16:42.406)
haha

Davey Warren (17:04.994)
we're basically almost going to eradicate cancer because it's going to be able to detect it by looking through tens of thousands of previous scans of cancer and finding out what's the earliest element of where it could be. And so think about this for like CRM is like, we're going be able to easily detect. mean, Hubstead's got a tool in there now telling you like, what's the chances of this closing and that AI tools, it's gathering data. It's only getting better. So your sales guys can come in and spend time. And I keep telling this people,

Dale Zwizinski (17:15.525)
Hmm.

Davey Warren (17:34.848)
Spend time on deals that have momentum. Spend time as a marketing person on leads that have momentum that are actually interested. They're not just coming over and going, wow, that's a fancy car. I've always wanted to see a Tesla before on your lot. And you're like, do you want to buy it? And they're like, nah, I don't have the money. Well, if I'd known that before, I wouldn't have started the conversation. And you're getting that in the CRM, right? This data is not just enrichment of data, it's enrichment of possibilities.

Dale Zwizinski (17:54.149)
Yeah.

Davey Warren (18:04.524)
Right? What is the possibility with this client? Where are the opportunities to upsell, cross sell, to prevent challenges? You have a project that might be delayed. How can you look at that and keep it from being delayed and create that customer satisfaction? It's huge.

Dale Zwizinski (18:21.008)
Yeah, it is big. I want to shift the conversation a bit. So a lot of times, and now that know that you had like a sales background, you want to be fractional sales, this will be even more interesting to have this conversation. We, we get into a lot of conversations where, especially over the last six, eight months, we need more top of funnel. We need more, you know, demand. We need more leads. We got to get things closed. Like these are, these are some of the words that are being said.

But then like revenue re -imagined, we'll dig in a little bit more and we'll be like, you have leads, you just don't have a process. Like they're stuck in HubSpot, they're stuck somewhere else. You have workflows overriding each other. You're not working the leads that you have. And then like you, as you peel back the onion, you realize like someone, especially in the startup world had some VP of sales or someone that like tried to set up HubSpot.

They didn't really know what they're doing. And then all of sudden you have like 400 super admins that are in there, like creating all these different workflows that are overriding each other. And then you realize like, it's really a fundamental process set up challenge that if you fix that part, you may actually be able to do the work that you're doing. I'm curious. Do you see that a lot? What are your recommendations around that? Like where, where should people start?

when they see these challenges.

Davey Warren (19:51.32)
man, you just like brought like so much to my mind because there's so many little so I was sitting with my team actually just last week and my guy I now take time I we do a four day work week and because I now take my Friday to like detox a little bit from the week but I'm trying to work on vision I was just listening to shoot was the book I want to give a good book recommendation here that

Adam Jay (19:53.839)
Hmm.

Davey Warren (20:18.638)
I read the six habits of growth recently, but there was another one that I was listening to. And I think it was the happiness advantage. And they talk about like working on your vision. So anyway, so sitting down looking at these challenges and I was like, why is it that we have companies that come to us and they're like, hey, I it's when they have a new VP of sales, all of a sudden they come talk to me. Like we've had HubSpot, our old VP last, we have a new one and we want help. And I'm like, okay, well,

Dale Zwizinski (20:40.319)
Mm

Davey Warren (20:47.916)
Either the previous VP, I have to sit down and go, okay, why weren't they let go or why did they leave? Right? Either the previous VP, he knew, he knew how to close. Maybe he had the tools on how to hunt, right? But he didn't know how to use a CRM. So he didn't, had a technology disadvantage, right? And that's why I was trying to get this fractional VP role was I was trying to come in and fill the gap of the tool belt. If you think about what a VP of sales has to have in their tool belt, it's quite a bit. They got to know commission.

Dale Zwizinski (21:02.095)
Mm

Dale Zwizinski (21:11.899)
Mm -hmm.

Davey Warren (21:17.134)
They got to create a commission structure, make sure that it's fair. They got to know how to run an SDR team, right? Or BDR team, then have a closer team, right? And they know how to do a pass off with that. They got to understand the customer journey. They have to be able to communicate with the marketing team on what this team needs. Then you dump in a CRM on top of them, on top of all the other technologies. So now they've got to be an IT expert in all these fields as well. It's a lot to wear. It's a big hat, right? And then you got to be the coach.

too, you got to come in and coach people and you have to know that you can work in coaching. So there's guys that come in and they're VP of sales because they sold, you know, $12 million for XYZ company in one year previously. And this company hires them and says, okay, you're going to, you're going to help our team because we know you can sell. They don't know how to coach, right? But all of these tool belt issues and CRM is one of the big ones. And so people bring us in because it was, it was something that was missing from the previous guy's tool belt. And guess what? The next guy coming in.

It's not on his tool belt either. And we get hired and now they're, they go, well, we'll get smart. We'll hire, we'll contract out to Paragon, which I'm grateful for. Right. And one of the first things we do is like, we try to figure out, okay, what, what are you doing? What's your, what's your end goal? And then I come in with this and this is the hardest part. Who on your team is going to manage this? And they go, well, we want to be self -sufficient. was like, that's impossible. That's what's adding a new feature every day. You have to have somebody who's actually watching that. Right.

Adam Jay (22:15.351)
Mm -mm.

Dale Zwizinski (22:15.356)
All right.

Davey Warren (22:43.106)
Your CRM, and this is the same with Salesforce. Your CRM is never complete. try, I get companies all the time, they're like, we just want to know that it's working and we're functioning. And I have to give them the bad news up. You're never going to be done because you're going to find it's a factory. Think of it as a factory. You look for bottlenecks, you fix the bottleneck. If your entire organization is communicating and running in a CRM, right? From marketing to servicing the client, you have a factory going on.

Adam Jay (22:58.392)
Never.

Davey Warren (23:12.846)
and that factory needs maintenance. The machine's got to be updated. The machine has to be, you have to find out that this machine's creating 10 widgets and the next one is connecting only five widgets over here. And so you're over producing and it gets backlogged and they got a backlog of, know, two X to every, you know, widget they're trying to put together. That doesn't work. So you have a bottleneck. go, well, how do I make this five widget fixer upper turn into a 10 widget? So I have 10 and 10 and everything's flowing faster.

Dale Zwizinski (23:13.051)
Mm -hmm.

Davey Warren (23:41.208)
And that's what happens. And so I tell companies that the trick here is to have a governance committee. And what I mean by that is that once a month, once a quarter, and right now I do it once a month because we move so fast. Once a month you get a sales leader, marketing leader, or sales and a marketing leader together and a service leader and they sit in a room and they go, what do you want to update in the CRM? And let's make sure that that transfers. So you don't have workflows.

that are fighting against each other in the system, right?

Adam Jay (24:12.238)
That happens? Really? Kidding. Every engagement we come across that doesn't have a dedicated, what I'll call, admin, and I love the idea of governance committees, like there's workflows that supersede workflows that supersede workflows, and you go in and it's like you see this red circle with 197 errors and no one's checked it in six months, and they're wondering why nothing works.

Davey Warren (24:35.628)
And you can put in an admin. mean, think about, and I go back and forth on this. You can put in an admin that tries to do all of it. The marketing, the cell, like they're the main admin, but unless they were brought in agnostically, like, like the CEO said, you're my admin and your job is to help each of these departments. Usually they come from the marketing department or the sales department. And so they're swayed and it just happens from politics internally. They're swayed towards what the marketing team wants and they make a bunch of requests because they get it.

Adam Jay (24:59.512)
Yeah.

Davey Warren (25:04.994)
and they don't train the sales team and the sales team kind of turns in this. We get called in all the time with companies where they're like, well, Susie is the marketing person and we've got Billy now we've decided to make him our sales admin. And I'm like, those two have to work together. They got to figure out how to work together in HubSpot. And so I have to deal with this dichotomy and assistive, but governance for large organizations, mid market to corporate, you should be holding. It's one of the things we're training our team on as we go up market is.

help the client understand governance. Governance is an ongoing path of basically, and they've got to be logical in figuring out the manufacturing issues. my gosh, I'm producing 10 widgets here and five here. I've got a bottleneck. How do I solve this bottleneck within my organization? Because if you don't, it's just going to perpetuate, you know, it's going to happen. The VP of sales is going to get fired because he just can't seem to get it through. Right. And then a new VP comes in and you start the cycle.

all over again. You think that guy's going to fix it. He hires a company like mine. We create his vision, which is basically just removing. know, I know every time I come in, what I'm looking at is a bottleneck from the previous guy that he didn't know how to solve. And so I solved the bottleneck. The next guy moves on and I promise you he's only going to last, you know, a year to two years before his bottleneck show up because he never created a governance. Even though we tell them, Hey, this is ongoing. Who do you have on your team? That's going to manage it.

How are they going to manage it? Let's train them on how to find updates, how to put those updates in, how to see the vision of your organization. And you guys probably see the same thing. You see this cyclical turn within a company, and that's what keeps you and I in business. I'm grateful for it in my respect, but the same time, it'd be great.

Dale Zwizinski (26:49.008)
Great.

Adam Jay (26:49.646)
I just said the other day no one ever calls us to say hey things are going amazing and perfect we'd love to work with you

I wish they did, but that's not how it rolls. So, 100%. This has been super helpful and super insightful. It's good to sometimes sit back and learn things that I didn't think of. I'll be the first to admit, like the governance thing. I love that idea. Didn't think of it. Like typically it's, someone wants a change. Let's just go create the change or create the workflow and do it ad hoc versus.

Davey Warren (27:03.906)
Yeah, I'm help companies perpetuate, so.

Adam Jay (27:31.192)
keep it running and we will meet about it however often we meet about it and collectively make a decision versus like one sales admin saying I want a workflow that changes the discovery status. Well, what is that impact? Et cetera, et cetera.

Davey Warren (27:43.118)
that's why sandbox is important. Again, it's where HubSpots progress. We didn't have sandbox before I was working and so we would work in a live org and it scared me every day. And I tell them don't push the Publish button because all of a sudden you send out 20 ,000 emails because there's a workflow that you know is fighting against it. but you know, governance is really just about how it's kind of a Six Sigma thing, right? By the way, I'm not a black belt. I've never did Six Sigma. But I understand the concept is

Internal discussion to solve your own problems. The governance committee is the same thing. Solve your own problems. People sit down and say, hey, here's what we're thinking of doing. Does this impact you? And how would it impact you? And it's just a good ongoing discussion. Going back to smart marketing, smart marketing is about sales and marketing working together to say, OK, here's the content we're creating. How sales going to push it out? OK, now how's that going to work in the CRM? Right. How do we keep track of that?

How do I get the data flow that this is actually going to be effective or not? That's a new report, right? Okay. Well, somebody's got to create a report. That report didn't exist yesterday. So somebody has to come in and know how to do that and where to do it. That's just critical. It's just becoming critical mass for these companies as they move up market in HubSpot. And that's the thing too, smaller, so many SMB businesses on HubSpot that are

becoming mid -market and so on. you're going to see this. That's why it's overshadowing Salesforce. There's a cyclical CRM pattern that you see all the time. You know, it used to be like getting access database, spreadsheets, access database, Microsoft dynamics, SSE, Oracle, and then you get Salesforce. And now you've got HubSpot. HubSpot's the TikTok to, you know, to Facebook or whatever, right? And Instagram, just the next best thing.

Adam Jay (29:19.65)
Yeah? Yeah? Oof.

Dale Zwizinski (29:32.462)
Yeah.

Davey Warren (29:34.594)
But what's interesting is because we know that cycle, HubSpot is trying to stay ahead of everybody by doing these updates. So it should be interesting to see what comes out next. I'm wondering if there might be a future. I'm going to get totally nerdy here. There might be a future where it's not HubSpot that does the updates. It's HubSpot AI that goes, here's how to create better feature functionality. We're going to go ahead and develop this and it start. You're going to see CRMs that develop tools for companies just through communication.

with the AI as their...

Adam Jay (30:07.096)
That that doesn't that that that wouldn't surprise me at all and I do think AI That is a good use in future of AI All right, as we wrap it up, let's dive into some rapid -fire questions Here's the rules ten answers or less or ten words or less. Excuse me or Dale has a super cool device that pops through the Recording here and will gong you in the head All right, Davey early early bird early bird or night owl?

Davey Warren (30:16.428)
yeah.

Davey Warren (30:32.494)
Okay, 10 words you love.

Davey Warren (30:38.032)
Early bird. Definitely. All the time.

Dale Zwizinski (30:40.388)
If you weren't in tech, what other what other job would you be? What would you do if you weren't in tech?

Davey Warren (30:47.123)
man. I'd probably be camping outdoors all the time. Boy Scouts.

Dale Zwizinski (30:56.506)
There you go.

Adam Jay (30:56.878)
What's one thing you do to unwind after a long day?

Davey Warren (31:01.861)
watercolor.

Dale Zwizinski (31:03.91)
Hmm.

Adam Jay (31:04.11)
Nice.

Davey Warren (31:05.324)
Yeah, it's very enriching.

Dale Zwizinski (31:07.292)
what's, what's your most favorite used emoji in your work chats?

Davey Warren (31:14.456)
Just the thumbs up. I don't go too far.

Dale Zwizinski (31:18.619)
Hehehe

Adam Jay (31:19.116)
What's your favorite guilty pleasure snack?

Davey Warren (31:23.086)
twex.

Dale Zwizinski (31:28.74)
Wrap it up, last one. What's your dream vacation destination?

Davey Warren (31:33.64)
I like to go to the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs. It's a five -star hotel.

Adam Jay (31:39.63)
It is, we have a client that does work at the Broadmoor. I was just talking about the Broadmoor yesterday. So that's very funny. I've heard it's absolutely stunning.

Davey Warren (31:48.288)
It is my oasis. Like I could go, I feel like I'm in a different world.

Adam Jay (31:54.035)
Davey, thank you so much for joining. can people learn more about your services, man? Where can people find you other than coming through Revenue Reimagined? But where can people go to find you directly?

Davey Warren (32:03.874)
Yeah, no, definitely go through you guys. I think makes sense because I feel like you all help set some of the steps that we've just talked about, right? Even though the term isn't Bitcoin, but you guys use governance, but that's what you're trying to do is help companies govern what they're doing and look at that process. Paragon .com, P -E -A -R -A -G -O -N .com is a great place. You'll see items on there for free audits. So if you have it at HubSpot and you're like,

We just want to know is it functioning or not. We'll come in and do a free audit for you. There's a button there. Or just schedule a consultation with our VP of Sales, Todd, which would be great, and get more information.

Adam Jay (32:44.814)
Goldman, Davey, thank you so much for joining. It was a pleasure. We'll chat soon.

Dale Zwizinski (32:48.656)
Thank you.

Davey Warren (32:49.688)
Thanks guys.