Episode #80 Scale to $100M+: Sales Leadership, Customer Success & Growth Lessons with Ned Arick

In this episode of Revenue Reimagined, we welcome Ned Arick, CRO of Attyx, who’s mastered the art of scaling businesses from the ground up—taking ventures from zero to $100M+ with a relentless focus on strategy, execution, and customer success. Ned dives into his unique career journey, from being the first sales hire to leading multi-million dollar acquisitions across HVAC, roofing, and solar industries.

We cover:
 • 💼 The hardest role: first salesperson, first sales leader, or business owner?
 • 📈 Scaling challenges and how to navigate rapid growth without losing quality
 • 🏡 Why customer success drives long-term revenue in service-based businesses
 • 💡 Key takeaways from transitioning from tech to services and what SaaS leaders can learn
 • 🔢 The importance of knowing your numbers—forecasting, margins, and scaling smarter

Whether you’re scaling a tech startup or running a service business, Ned’s insights will change how you think about revenue, leadership, and growth.

Follow Ned: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nedarick/

PS - huge shout out to Sendoso for sponsoring our show.

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Transcript

00:00 
This is the Revenue Reimagined podcast where we talk about what else all things revenue with the best senior leaders across sales, marketing, customer success, and RevOps so that you can scale your business by reimagining how you think about revenue. 

00:15 
I'm Adam Jay and I'm Dale Zielinski. As always, thanks for hanging with us. There's a million ways you can be spending your time and we're grateful that you're choosing to spend it with us. Be sure to check out our newsletter if you want the show notes, amazing giveaways, and the tactical advice on how to uncomplicate revenue. 

00:32 
Let's get to it. Welcome back to another episode of the Revenue Reimagined podcast. We have what I would say thus far is our most untraditional guest with us so far today that I am so friggin excited to talk to. 

00:46 
Ned Erich is the CRO at Addix. He is a season pro in both startups and scale-ups having been both sales hire number one, sales leader number one across multiple ventures. Ned's tackled everything from launching a home services company despite, according to him, these are not my words, never lifting a hammer, to driving beam solar to eight-figure first-year growth and leading it through a successful acquisition. 

01:08 
He also helped rebrand and merge companies into Addix home services which we'll talk about, achieving a small $100 million in its first year. Previously, Ned was head of growth at Close Loop where he delivered double-digit revenue gains for clients through data-driven strategies and team development, a self-proclaimed data nerd like myself, an early-stage startup expert. 

01:28 
Ned has built high-performing sales teams that have driven multiple exits. With strategy, systems, staff, skills, and most importantly, relentless drive, Ned turns hustle into results. Ned, thanks for joining us, man. 

01:43 
I am stoked to have you here. Thanks, Adam. Yeah, thanks, Dale, and I actually didn't even realize you were talking about me for about half that time, so that's kind of cool. Listen man, it's the radio in me. 

01:57 
I got to introduce you right and then you could take that clip and whenever you... walk on stage, just play that. I'm still, I'm gonna play that every time I walk into a room at my house. Listen, I'm down for that, man. 

02:08 
I love it. Ned, thanks for joining us, I appreciate it. So as Adam was giving you the great introduction, I was starting to think, what's the hardest role? The first salesperson, the first sales leader are actually executing and running your own company. 

02:26 
Ooh. That's a really, really good question. And actually, one I've never thought about before, it's probably because I put all of them really deep back in my head, so I never think about them. But I would say it really depends. 

02:39 
So it's very difficult to be the first salesperson. If you're joining a company that doesn't have product market fit the founder hasn't done a lot of like of the pre-work, right? Like I can imagine that that would be a very very difficult role to be in I can say I've been blessed to be in sales roles where You know as the first sales leader or a first sales hire I've come into an organization where they had a lot of the you know customer stories already Even if it was friends and family right like it was there was a lot involved there But I think there is nothing more difficult personally Than starting from ground zero in a co-working space in Greensboro, 

03:22 
North Carolina with your business partner Launching Facebook ads and seeing a thousand dollars a day go on your business credit card being like oh crap We should probably start making sales because neither of us are making any money And then there's nothing probably more harder than than hiring people Making sure that they're set up for success Then there's also nothing harder than hiring people that are gonna do good work for the homeowners that you sell, 

03:47 
too So I think like it's all dependent on how you look at it, but I would say in my career The the hardest thing that that I've done is for sure starting being with Alex and really just scaling that as quickly as we did Because with fast scale comes a lot of problems as well, right? 

04:07 
So Yeah, it's the problems with scale are interesting But you you touched on something that I think a lot of people in B2B software don't think about right so it's a CRO and B2B software Obviously you're focused on marketing your focus on sales your focus on customer success, but you don't have that component of physical product or physical service And I've done physical product and that's very hard And I think a lot of people don't realize that like selling software is one thing but getting this pen from point a to point B whole fucking different conversation But services is interesting you said Hiring the people that are going to deliver great service to your customers. 

04:48 
Talk to me about how that affects just your overall revenue mindset when you're building the business. Because most, transparently, most of our listeners probably have never had to think about it other than, you know, I hope our software is good and I hope I have a great, you know, customer success person who could deliver, but that's very different than I'm going to your home and I have to deliver this service. 

05:09 
Yeah. Yeah. And one of the biggest things that I brought over from software was the customer success aspect. And it's interesting because every other day on LinkedIn, I'll see someone be like customer success is dead. 

05:23 
And I'm like, well, we build an eight figure company and then nine figures from honestly our customer success thing. Right. And so we almost started backwards, like we, Alex and I started having conversations with general contractors. 

05:40 
installers, you know, electrical board members in North Carolina before we launched the sales process before we launched marketing. And the reason is is because when you are providing a service, and especially when you're providing a service to a homeowner, I mean, you're going into their space, and they're expecting you to do a bang up job. 

06:01 
And if you don't, all their friends, everyone they go to church with their group with that they work out with at the gym, oh, by the way, everyone on Facebook is going to hear that you are the worst company that's ever, you know, worked just because you left two or three cigarette butts on their in their yard, which to most people, you'd be like, Oh, well, that's not a big deal. 

06:23 
You know, clean them up, I'm sorry. No, to a homeowner, that's a big deal. And so, you know, I would say that what we did really differently than in most cases is we really focused on that back end fulfillment piece, really, even before we said, Hey, let's put in our marketing sales systems and strategies. 

06:40 
And, you know, I would even say for like B2B software, right? What is your adoption look like? What is your onboarding process look like? What is your speed to value look like? How quickly can you get someone from putting, you know, a dollar amount on on their credit card, or in the invoice, to them seeing that first result, right? 

07:01 
And you know, we have a, you know, in in our North Carolina, South Carolina markets, when we first started, we had a your HVAC is installed in 72 hours or three. Wow. Right? Because it was it was like, when we first started, it's like, oh, we might be able to schedule two weeks out. 

07:18 
Well, number one, we're going to lose that revenue. And number two, everyone's going to be pissed off because it's the middle of summer and we need air conditioning. Right? Like, well, you better go put some AC and someone's house. 

07:29 
So, you know, I think there's a lot to be said around focusing on the fulfillment, understanding what that wholesale process looks like, and understanding like, obviously, your whole entire operation. 

07:40 
operating model from start to finish. But if you can get the fulfillment down, especially in a service-based business and really decrease that speed to value, I think every service company wins there. 

07:52 
Yeah, it's, you're actually building the company the right way. And I think that's what's wrong with a lot of tech companies, the way they built them is they're just built, like they're trying to grow as fast as they can, grow at all costs. 

08:05 
They really haven't thought about the backend of it. They're like, and this is a function of the investments, the investors, the CEOs, like this isn't really a function of like, let's see what the customer wants. 

08:18 
Let's figure out what that value is. When we articulate or derive that value, then we can work backwards to it. And in fact, we're speed to lead or speed to quote or speed to value, all the things that you're talking about. 

08:33 
I think people are now realizing You know in in 2024 like if we don't get to those things Either if your tech's not good enough or your service isn't good enough like people one They're not gonna spend money with you to they're not going to come back to you So like repeat customers that you probably know like repeat customers is like so much less expensive than trying to like Find new customers at top of fun. 

08:56 
Also building that backwards. I think is exactly the right way I've never heard you sound so intelligent by the way, Dale. I'm very impressed That was impressive. I'm very impressed. He's he's looking he's on a performance improvement plan Well, at least Adam you're not firing him before that The funny thing is not to sidetrack Dale I forget who it was but we did have a customer who sent an email and basically it was like They basically said that I worked for Dale is the short version they didn't realize that like we're partners They're like, 

09:35 
well, I need to check with Dale to see if this is okay But and I'm like dude, like I don't work for Dale and Dale doesn't work for me Like we're all trying to help you together here It was funny and Dale never lets me live it down Yeah, you should it's true Well, it's funny that we we actually we lead like one of us leads the the account and it's inevitable Like what was leading the account that ends up happening? 

10:00 
But um, oh, yeah I mean it happens with our lenders and vendors all the time like I'll email them and they'll be like Oh, we've got to go through this person. I'm like, yeah, that's our that's literally just accounts payable I just need you to answer my question And that's the same email coming to me, by the way Yeah, it's funny as you guys were building that backwards mod like not the backwards model but from customer success value Do you guys implement on the front end of it and it sounds like you do and I think this is where a Lot of software companies have a hard time articulating that value in telling them, 

10:35 
like you said, if we don't install it in 72 hours, it's on us. Like, how do you like leapfrog that? Or how do you make it better? Or like, what's the competition do when you do that kind of stuff? Like, are they trying to replicate it? 

10:50 
What does that look like in your business? Yeah, you know, we do HVAC roofing in solar, right? And it's a really interesting market to be in because if you look at our business, you've got solar, which is the Wild West, right? 

11:07 
There's no regulation. You know, we've got buddies that just literally get a team of 10 guys. They'll go to Lincoln, Nebraska for 10 days and all those guys walk out with $40,000 in their pockets, right, so it's like this weird Wild West industry where like, yeah, you've gotta be very forward thinking. 

11:26 
right? With what your value proposition is, how you're selling, who you're selling to, being very strategic on the doors you knock or the people that are calling in. And then you've got roofing and HVAC, which are these kind of antiquated markets. 

11:39 
And they're markets that really haven't been, um, the only word that's coming to mind is sexified. That's not a right word, but like it hasn't been made sexy because it really is built by great technicians and great construction guys that don't necessarily know how to build a business. 

12:00 
But what they do know how to do is do great work and build great relationships. And so when we come in to a market, it's, it's very interesting for us to have to actually be out Chuck and his truck because Chuck and his truck has been there for 30 years. 

12:16 
He's got 500 clients who get, he goes out in services at 10 PM on a Sunday, right? He's the best price. He's got, you know, he goes to church with the people. I think that's what you run into more often when you're a conglomerate like us. 

12:30 
And what that's actually sort of forced us our hand to do is actually be a kind of build a rollout model. When we see a guy in a market that's doing really well roofing, HVAC, things like that, you know, what, what I do love about it is they're always open to talking to us, right? 

12:45 
Like I have conversations every day with HVAC owners and roofing owners just like, Hey man, what are you doing? Like what's happening? What's working? Like, you know, where are you getting your, where are you getting your skilled tradesmen? 

12:56 
Like what, where are you, where are you going for that? And they're really open. But what that also does open the door for us as well is to say like, Hey, here's some jobs that we have. Hey, go do these jobs. 

13:07 
We'll subcontract to you. And then we start to just consistently give them to them. And then eventually we're, you know, rolling up their company and they're, you know, chucking their truck by addicts now. 

13:15 
But, you know, to answer your question, Dale, it hasn't been something that we've really had to be super concerned about, right? It, because the model. really is do good work, build great relationships, scale your business, and scaling your business really up until a couple of years ago in HVAC and roofing was meant, you know, your $10 million revenue is a great company. 

13:39 
And don't get me wrong, it's still a great company. But once private equity started coming in, and there was a lot of this like outside money, most of what's happening is these mom and pops are getting rolled up into, you know, these larger organizations, and they can't keep their pricing, things like that. 

13:56 
So yeah, we haven't really had to like deal with a ton of like copycats. The whole Chuck in a truck thing is interesting. We're just talking about this with a client. Yeah, yeah, we work with a service company now. 

14:07 
And, and this is the first time I heard it, we were actually just like in a meeting with the senior executives and the investor. And they're like Chuck in the truck, and then you said it. And so it made me think about that. 

14:17 
But what what it was was sparking in my head was First, Florida is like the worst place for roofing because like we both live in Florida. So, so does Ned. If you looked at your show prep, you would know. 

14:30 
Oh, that's right. You do live in it. Neptune Beach to be specific now. Trust in me. But it's like, you know, it's the perfect area to do HVAC and roofing. So it's like, how do you, you competing against these little guys? 

14:46 
And like you said, they're in, they're in church all the time, but it's all about good work. Like I don't, I see people in Florida, cause we're from originally from Boston, hustle work, like work ethic up there. 

14:57 
Like you, like the contract is all that kind of stuff. You get down here and it's like, where are the people? So I think it's easy to compete against some of those guys. We love, like our New York office is, I mean, it's our most efficient market. 

15:09 
Just really due to the, like, I mean, we could literally call our foreman and he'll have 10 guys on our roof within five minutes. Like they're all just like, and I mean, I'm talking like an emergency job. 

15:19 
He's like, cool. Yeah, we got 10 guys right now. So it's wild to work ethic up there. Yeah. It's funny to me, like people, services is such a different business. Like it really is, right? There's so many components that I think 95% of software people would go to services and have no effing clue what to do, right? 

15:42 
Like you have real margin, like real human capital, like you have to pay someone to go do this. Plus you have an HVAC unit that has a cost. Like there's just, it's a whole different way of looking at P and L. 

15:55 
Talk to me a little bit about on that topic, like what was that transition like? And how did you go from being a successful CRO in the tech world where we all could probably do the shit with our eyes shut to like, this has a cost and these people have a cost. 

16:10 
And I still like, great, I could bring these businesses together, but shit, man, profit margin is not 90% here. People buy from people. That's why companies who invest in meaningful connections win the best part. 

16:23 
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16:40 
If you're looking for a proven way to win and retain more customers, visit Sandoso.com. Yeah, yeah, I mean, when you look at a good, like a good company in home services, you're looking at 15, 20, 25% margin, and you're like, you're going to get 8 to 10X EBITDA from a private equity company, right? 

17:00 
A typical HVAC company acquisitions 3 to 5, but that's typically because they've got pretty low EBITDA, right? So, I mean, it was definitely a transition. That's for damn sure. Like, it was, you know, I'm sitting there, I'm like, dude, let's just throw a bunch of money at the wall. 

17:14 
Dude, I've got the best marketing, I've got the best sales systems, right? We are kind of crushed, and then, like, you start to realize... All right, our customer acquisition cost on that deal was 13.5. 

17:27 
Okay, we bought the unit for 3500. Like you start doing the math in your head, like not even a spreadsheet, you're like, Oh, shit, we just only made $1,000. Right? Yeah, okay. All right. Well, we're not going to grow to a million dollars off of $1,000 profit margin. 

17:42 
And so it, you know, I think that one thing, and I really don't think this is this matters, whether you're in home services, or if you're in a unit economics, very well as a leader, I think you win, right? 

17:57 
And you know, I, I made a comment, I forget who posted this the other day, but I made a comment on a post of like, I really think that the reason that I am where I am, is because early on in my career, I just like went all in on spreadsheets. 

18:08 
And math has always come easy to me. And so I just like went all in on understanding what one plus one is in business. And like we all know that like business truly is math, when we break it down at the end of the day, right, it's leads to opportunities to, you know, how many discovery calls the demos to whatever it is, like it all is math at the end of the day. 

18:30 
And so once I realized that, okay, cool. For an average job, this is how much we are going to spend, right? And that changes sometimes month over month. And you know, we started the company in 2021. We were selling like 199 interest rates, right? 

18:47 
So that's a completely different conversation than what we were doing this year. At you know, minimum 599 interest rates, you know, we're able in 2021 to buy a three ton H rack unit for $2,500, one at a time from the warehouse, you know, now we're lucky if we can get it for 45 at volume, right. 

19:06 
And so there's a lot that just goes into the understanding of the P&L and being able to understand, okay, cool, each section of it of like, just here's our gross revenue, here are our expenses, here's our costs of goods sold here, just like looking at it and being able to at the end of a day understand like, if we need to be at a 20% margin, every job, which is our goal, we have to price it this way. 

19:31 
And then from there, you have to understand like, well, there's also in home services, there's gobacks, well, I've got to pay a guy to go back and fix that job, right? So that eats into it. And so you just start to understand your forecast isn't just like, man, I think we can get this many leads and make this many sales and we'll be good. 

19:50 
It's you start to forecast the entire funnel, right? You start to forecast lead costs, you start to forecast your cost per meeting, your cost per sit, you forecast your cost per sold opportunity, which doesn't necessarily mean customer acquisition costs yet, because people can cancel, right? 

20:08 
They can cancel within three days, right? A precision across the country. So it's like now what's our cost of progressing deal? based on that cancellation, right? And then what's our cost per install, but then what's our cost per install plus go back, right? 

20:22 
And what's our, like, what is the minimum that we can forecast and what's the maximum we accept? And so it's a much more, I wouldn't say it's more in depth, but you just start to think about things a lot more than I did when I was in software. 

20:35 
It was like, okay, cool. We just need to make a hundred sales in software and we're going to be good. And we have, you know, margins on this and all we have to worry about is like salaries. Cool. Like now it's salaries, you know, it's benefits. 

20:48 
It's our guys on the roof. It's insurance. It's the trucks. It's all of these things that people don't realize. And it's why I wouldn't say like, I'm against people saying like, Hey, go just buy a home service company and you'll be a millionaire. 

21:04 
Like, I think it's decent like advice. Like, Hey, go to these unsexy markets and you're going to have some success. The next door, our revenue stream, our, our home services. There you go. That's actually a pretty cool net. 

21:16 
But I think like what people don't realize is in this model, there's so much more than just like buying a company and calling it a day. Like you are a people manager, like day one. Oh yeah. And like, there's no such thing as like passive home services revenue. 

21:33 
Like we'll do $200 million next year. I'm going to be just as involved next year as I was at zero, as I was at 11 million, as I was at 25 after, after the acquisition, as I was, you know, one 20 that we're doing this year. 

21:48 
It's like, there's none of this, like, Oh, just sit back, relax, let the guys do what they're going to do. There's a lot of involvement, making sure that the systems process structure are happening and the SOPs are being followed. 

22:00 
So you would say that a services company CRO, which I also think is something that people just aren't used to, is much more involved than a technology company CRO as you scale. I would say so. Yeah, I've definitely worked more in the last four years than I did in tech, like, and not necessarily from an hours perspective, because I, if you ask my family, like, I'm kind of a workaholic. 

22:28 
Um, we all are from the nature of the CRO beast. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Um, but I would definitely say from like a hands in the dirt with the guys literally sometimes with the guys, like, yes, I'm, I am making sure, because I mean, when you've got guys on roofs, it's, you know, although we've got a head of construction, if we get screwed, you know, if we have OSHA roll up and our guys aren't tied off on the roof, 

22:57 
we get fine. We lose licenses. Like that's a big deal. So we've got to always be making sure that the things are happening, whether that be the sales process too. Cause like if our guys tell someone in a house, something that is inaccurate, especially when it comes to solar and there's government funding involved. 

23:15 
That's an attorney general that gets involved. That's not just a bad Yelp review, right? There's like legal matters that come into that. And so, yeah, I mean, I definitely find myself a lot more in the weeds on a day-to-day basis. 

23:28 
And I think a lot of technology CROs would benefit from acting like a services CRO a lot more. Could not agree more. Would you ever go back to TechNet? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But I bet you'd be a lot better too. 

23:43 
And I just wanted to make sure Adam knows that one plus one actually equals two. So I just wanted to make sure that you got that F1 note down. Yeah. I always drop this really smart nuggets on podcasts. 

23:55 
That's why people have me. It's just like rudimentary math. But it's really funny. One of the things that you were saying, because I actually don't think a lot of tech companies understand their cost of goods. 

24:08 
I don't think they understand their cost of service. They think they're, we were just talking about this with the client and customer acquisition costs, what the real customer acquisition cost is, what is included in that customer acquisition cost. 

24:21 
All of a sudden they're looking at EBITDA at the end of it. And they're like, well, we're not making as much margin as we, we're supposed to be making 80% margin on software. But it's like, okay, do you really know when you spin up a new customer on your AWS server, like what that really costs and how much technology you're using, like people don't know it. 

24:39 
I think every customer you go into, we try to ask, what does it cost you to bring on one more customer? And they can't answer the question. Like they're like, oh, it's not much. Like that's what you hear. 

24:48 
And the tech people don't really want to tell you on the tech side. And then you're just hiring people. Then all of a sudden, like the margins aren't making sense anymore. But I think because we're working with a service company, kind of like what you guys are doing, we're trying to build comp plans and we're used to building comp plans on, you know, 10 or 12% commission rates. 

25:08 
But you can't do that in the margin business, right? Because if you're selling a big. deal and you're comping them at, you know, 3%, 4%, whatever that looks like on the services business, you're cutting into that margin that has real labor involved in it that you can't really get out of. 

25:27 
So I do think one of the things that you said, the faster companies can get into their numbers, whether they liked, I think the reason why we don't do it in tech is we don't like the numbers. Like we don't like our conversion rates. 

25:39 
We don't like our close rates. We don't like our average deal size. Cause like you go in, you ask what your average deal says. I don't know. It's somewhere between like 10 and 50,000 a year. It's like, that's not your average deal size. 

25:50 
And then yeah, ours is 71, 720. Yep. And you know that right off the top of the head. And I know exactly what our cost per install is. And the thing is, I'll tell you this is what I said about like more companies need to like act in this way is where in tech, you really do run into a lot of vague answers. 

26:11 
Right. Like when I was a closed loop, I worked with founders. like all the time, worked with over 300 founders and my time at closely. And they didn't know. And like when you start to dig into the numbers, like you were saying, Dale, it's like there's this not there's not this understanding, or they know one part of the business amazingly well. 

26:30 
And then the rest is just like, well, this is humming over here. Like the rest must be doing well. And I think there's like, what I really, like, harped, harped on big time with our organization is like, if you guys called up any of my VPs, they could tell you exactly what the conversion rates are of our reps down to the like, down to that one rep that just started in South Carolina, right. 

26:56 
And the reason is, is because we have in a lot of home services company, they're silos, right? It's like, hey, we've got our services team, they don't really talk to our sales team, who doesn't really talk to our marketing team, because it really isn't a marketing team. 

27:09 
That's a third party. But it's like, we understand at the beginning of every month, the amount of money that needs to be spent on marketing, in order to hit our revenue goal, and what our conversion rates need to be. 

27:22 
And we know on a daily basis. And this is where I think that, you know, the question of like, you know, have I done more work in, in the home services is like, I'm looking at these numbers on a daily basis, what are the fluctuations daily, so that we can be making these because we're such a transactional sale as well, right? 

27:40 
Someone could come in, and we could be we could have $8,000 in our bank account from them by the end of that day. Right. And so that's, I think, the biggest thing that I would say for a lot of tech people is we look at quarters. 

27:53 
And I think that was the biggest transition for me is like, I'm looking at when I first got there, I was like, Oh, let's look at quarterly numbers. And it's like, no, if you're looking at quarterly numbers, you're, you're three months behind where you should get off. 

28:06 
And I think we say that even even in tech, we're saying like, at least look at it monthly, like, yeah, because it's snowballs, like there's a domino effect, like that small snowball. Like if you're off like a percentage point, now you're off two percentage points, now you're off four percentage points. 

28:20 
And then you're like, now you're way off. And how do you backfill any of that funnel or backfill any of the close rates or know that you got to give a special deal or whatever it looks like. If you wait too long. 

28:32 
There are so many things that I think to put a bow on it that can go from tech to services and make services really successful, but vice versa. So many things on the services side that those of us in tech land don't even look at that would fundamentally change your business. 

28:50 
If you looked at things from a different perspective, I feel like we could spend another 90 minutes digging into this and definitely want to have you back on the show to dig in more. But we are coming up on this little thing that we call time. 

29:07 
Unfortunately, I really think we could do a whole series on this, but I digress. Ned, we'd love to do some rapid fire with you. You cool with that? Yeah, let's roll. All right, here we go. Early bird or night owl? 

29:18 
Early bird. What's the first app you check when you wake up in the morning? Bible app, actually. Nice. I'm getting better. I'm getting better. This is truly the first time it hasn't been something to the effect of Slack, LinkedIn, email. 

29:35 
Personal first, man. I love that. Favorite guilty pleasure snack? Cool, crumble cookies. Is that a snack? Yeah, that's a meal. That's a full day calorie. That's multi-day calories. If your company were an animal, what would it be and why? 

29:58 
A lion, cause we like literally, that's all we just hunt. Like that's all of our guys know. Like my VP of sales development literally sent a video in our group chat today in Slack. And it was like the Spartan, you know, who are we Spartans? 

30:14 
Like just so you're aware, home services is a very pro culture. So yeah, we do a lion. I love that. Ned, if you weren't, I don't want to say if you weren't in tech, but if you're not in sales, whether it's tech or services, what profession would you be in, man? 

30:30 
I'd be a strength and conditioning coach. That's actually what I went to school for and did a couple of internships with a couple of NFL teams, a couple of division one football teams. And I kind of get bit by the business bug though. 

30:43 
And yeah, maybe one day I'll go back, who knows? I love it. What do you think about Belichick going to UNC? I think it's super interesting with NIL. Yeah. I think he's like, he's a player developer, right? 

30:55 
You've got the Patriots that have that one, what six Super Bowls with guys that you've never heard of ever, right? And it's like, that's who Bill Belichick is. He's a player developer and I think it'll be great. 

31:08 
Yeah, interesting. Last question, wrapping it up. Dream vacation destination, besides someone's roof. this is this is this is gonna sound douchey but I live where people vacation yeah I love being home I travel a lot for work we live at the beach like we surf every day like I love you know my kids like love the beach they serve they do it's just like we honestly like are super blessed and so I would say my dream vacation is like coming home from work traveling we feel we feel the same way I lived in Boston and Northeast for 30 years I've lived down here now for 10 feel the same way I've been all over the world I'd rather come to this quirky west coast of Florida anytime 100% yeah Ned thank you so much for joining man where uh where can people go if they're in need of your services because everyone listening is gonna need services at some point in time yeah it's it's attyx.com pronounced attyx and you can tell that we that I come from tech when we merged the two companies and came up with that for sure. 

32:17 
But LinkedIn is where you can find me. And yeah, you can probably Google me and find some stuff. I don't know, like don't look too deep. Matt, thanks so much for joining me. We appreciate it. Awesome. 

32:29 
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32:38 
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32:56 
Until next time.