Episode #98 🚨 Why AI Is Failing Your GTM Strategy (And What Actually Works in 2025)

Everyone’s chasing the AI dream—but is it killing your go-to-market strategy? In this brutally honest episode, Adam, Dale, and Jake peel back the shiny hype to expose what’s really going on in B2B SaaS.

From fragmented AI tools and sales team chaos to vertical SaaS domination and the resurrection of Customer Success, this is the no-BS conversation founders and GTM leaders need to hear before they set fire to their revenue engines.

✅ Why “AI literacy” is your next job requirement

✅ The real cost of copy-paste AI playbooks

✅ What to fix before blaming ChatGPT

✅ How Customer Success became the new Sales

✅ Vertical SaaS, snail mail… and everything in between

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Transcript

This is Bridge the Gap, powered by Revenue Reimagined, the podcast where we dive into all things revenue. Each episode, we bring you the top founders and go-to-market leaders to challenge how you think about growth and help you bridge your biggest go-to-market gaps. I'm Adam Jay. And I'm Dale Zwizinski. 

As always, thanks for hanging with us. There's a million ways you can be spending your time, and we're grateful for you choosing to spend it with us. Be sure to check out our newsletter if you want the show notes and tactical advice on how to bridge your GTM Gaps. Let's get to it. 

Welcome back to another episode of the Bridge the Gap podcast, powered by none other than these three gents at Revenue Reimagined. And we do not have a special guest for you today. 

I mean, we do. Jake's here, but he is part of Revenue Reimagined. You're stuck with the three of us today. We're going to talk it up. We're going to bullshit around. We got some good topics to talk about. We're going to talk about all sorts of things. But yeah, no one else. We're going to power it by ourselves. Jake, thanks for hanging with us, man. 

It's always a bus. Great to actually be doing this together for the team and just saying some insights together. 

Yeah, I mean, I feel like we've spent, so the backstory here, y'all, we've spent the better part of the past two days together. We are all in different rooms now. I think at one point or another, we all wanted to kill someone out of the three of us. But we'll talk about what we did for the past three days and why that's important, because it all ties in to what we're going to talk about today. And let's start with this whole notion, and I see it on LinkedIn every day. 

You guys see it on LinkedIn every day. Go build or go buy this general AI bot, and holy shit, it's going to transform your business and save the world. Yay or nay? 

I say nay. It's not going to save the world. Is it going to save your go-to-market? Not going to save your go-to-market either. It actually will mess up your go-to-market. Crap in, crap out. This is the age-old question of, like, let's just download a template. 

Let's put it in. We're going to generate tons of leads, and we're going to generate derivative content of your marketing assets, and we're going to build these great outbound sequences with all this great email content, and it's going to be ultra-personalized. The thing that people are not realizing is that small piece of downloadable code that you get from all these iPad vendors or this chatGBT thing that some of these chatGBT experts are giving to you in this go-to-market is one little piece of an entire execution strategy that people don't have their go-to-market strategy built properly to begin with, or they're struggling with ICP, or they're struggling with, like, what is my real messaging we need to do? So we're going to generate a bunch of these generic emails, or we're going to create a generic blog based on some crappy GPT prompt, and then we're going to push out, and I wonder, like, oh, our response rates are, like, spam. What do you think, Jay? 

Jay, yeah, your name. Generalize AI box and transform your go-to-market. Can I say yay and nay? 

Yeah, absolutely. It's a yay to, it's intentionally investing in AI initiatives in the business, but the keyword there is intentionally. It's a nay to executing it the way that 99% of the market is doing it today, which is getting people into this, what's being called now, like, the AI paradox, right, where there is a basic understanding of the discussed ROI of AI initiatives, yet very few B2B SaaS companies and startups are actually experiencing or benefiting from the actual results of what that actually means. And I think that's the challenge is, are you investing in a proper, intentional AI initiative that has an execution that actually gets you the results versus just, you know, trying some cool turnout like everyone else right now? 

So let's piggyback off that because we spent a good amount of time talking about this this week. There are some awesome AI tools out there, right? There's some really good bots or agents that I think can do a lot of things. But I think one of the areas where people don't think this through is, I'm going to go buy an agent to write me that blog post, Dale, that you talk about, but let's just say it's a great agent and it's a great blog post. And then I'm going to get another agent that's going to handle, you know, crafting my ICT. And then I'm going to get another agent that's going to handle my discovery. And I'm going to get another agent that's going to do this. How the fuck are you tying it all together? 

Yeah, there's the integration layers not happening. There are some things that are happening in the space. The model context protocol, NCP is being developed, but we are talking to somebody today and they had a great analogy. It's like the Netflix analogy, right? And so you have Netflix, but then you're buying Paramount and you're buying HBO and you're buying like, you know, ESPN plus. And you're trying that all of a sudden you started with like an $80 streaming subscription, but you're up to like $175 and other subscriptions. 

They don't really have a table. They don't always tie back in together, right? So you have like four different logins of four different apps. And like that is the way that a lot of these go to market strategies are being built out 

with writer here potentially or using a Jasper. And now they're using, you know, Reggie.ai and they're trying to blend it into HubSpot that has AI and now like they're overwriting each other. 

So it's like, which one's really true? And if you have to go back and figure out where the problem is, like, is it the point solution? Is it something in your infrastructure? Is it something in the LLM? Did you prompt it wrong? 

Like, where is the problem? And I can tell you from my time of coding, like getting into the debugging of that could take up more time than it's even worth. And then people will just shut it down and say, like, this AI stuff doesn't work. And or, or I've seen this great video where all this AI stuff works and now, like, I'm not going to even give it up. I'm not even going to give it a try because I can't get the results that this other person got. 

Yeah, I'm talking about like, how are they just me together? Right? How are people out there stitching better? I'll tell you what I'm saying. Right? It's, it's, you know, with some of our clients, I'm, you know, we're in Slack channels with all our clients and the sales teams, like, we're part of the teams, right? And I see a founder or a leader of the team coming into Slack, just saying, Pay Team, solve this recommendation on LinkedIn. 

Every day. You guys see this post? Looks really cool. They're using this tool. Which if you want to try it, if they sign up for a trial, we should try that. Then one rep takes the lead. 

Signs up. Just most recently, I saw, like, I think there was, you know, the lavender's new emailing audit like, cool. Right? And so, like, the stitching together is actually being placed the burden of the sales reps to figure out how to prompt engineer or how to figure out the integrations with these tools. And they're, and their point solutions along the way. And so there's nothing feeding the context. 

There's nothing feeding the insight which needs to then drive what is derived into the output that drives the efficacy of the application of these tools. And so, like, these little agents are operating in silos trying to accomplish the same tasks while not communicating with each other. And in the end, they're asking the sellers themselves to be the ones who are the prompt engineers behind all of this. And it's just kind of wild that, like, this is how it's being deployed. And then, you know, 30 days later, 60 days later, it's like, ah, that really didn't work for us. Let's move on to the next one. 

Yeah. I hear you and I feel you. I'll take it one step further. That, I think, is a good way. And by no means good, but compared to what some other things I see where founders and CEOs are seeing these linked in posts. And without even, in my opinion, truly reading it, copying and pasting and saying, go try that team. Like, it's not even relevant to you in any way, shape or form, but go try it. Like, no data, no, like, even looking at it, no who's our customer. Like, just go try this and figure it out. What's the solve, y'all? Like, what is the solve to tying in and stitching it all together to have a proper AI playbook? 

I'll take a first crack at it. I don't think it's any different than the way we've been building GoToMarket for ages and ages. Like, it's got to be solid foundation, fundamental things that we're doing where we're looking at our ideal customer profiles, we're looking at our buy-in personas, we're pressure testing the value of propositions, and we're looking at it holistically. Once you have these foundational elements down, you can then start implementing AI to generate derivations of your content, your e-books, your LinkedIn messaging. But without doing the foundation, like, fails 101 type work, which is what people, I think are, I don't know if they're scared of doing, they just don't want to roll up their sleeves and do the pick and shovel work. Without doing that work, these prompts that you're putting into GPT and that you're pasting from, like, YouTube, and you're getting from Reddit and you're, like, pulling them from Twitter and you're like, I'm just going to try this messaging and then you look at it and it doesn't even relate to any of the business work that you're doing. So the answer is looking at your GoToMarket strategy holistically and trying to figure out where a place is that you're trying to solve for and trying to understand what you're, starting with the end in mind and then working backwards to how you would actually implement and execute the AI platform. 

Okay? It starts with, first, going through the exercise of understanding what is the problem we're trying to solve. And asking that question, first, then understanding what parts of the problem that we need to solve can we solve with automation or AI. Then it's exploring what tools, what processes can we use to then automate the problem that we have identified that we want to solve with AI and then what are the dependencies of that and how are we going to execute that. And putting that all together as a plan so that when you deploy, you have a clear problem identified. You have clear context for the problem. You have clear context for providing, you know, AI for what you're looking for on the task. 

And then there's an intentionality behind that. And you're not operating in silos. I mean, I think that's a big key here too, is that you're using, you're using, you're using on deep context to inform these tasks. And you're using deep information to inform what it is that you're seeking for the intentional output. 

Yeah, I agree 100%. And I think then having a documented system of stitching it together, and we've talked about this a lot, but that's where I think it all goes wrong, right? 

That you can't change one thing without expecting to change the rest. And I think there's some pretty exciting stuff coming down the line on that. Let's take you back off this for a minute. So I think AI has fundamentally changed some things. And so we, it used to be a employee world, right? Would you all agree that for the past couple of years, up until recently, employees control the job market? I think employees were setting salaries. 

I think employees were able to be fairly demanding. I want to work remote. I want this MacBook. I want this. 

I want that. And employers really have to capitulate because they needed these people. Are you, do you agree, yay or nay, that there is a fundamental shift and we are now back in a 100% employee or driven job market? Jay, you first. 

I think this is a hell yay on this one. And here's why. As much as I, like I struggle with these topics because I struggle with the power control of this thing. Because I always feel like it's never worked in the favor of the employee. 

I think the employee is always on the shit end of this thing. But here's what's interesting to me. As we were talking about AI, I think as that pendulum has shifted so far and formed so far in the direction where now we're starting to see, you know, a lot of people struggling with getting ROI from all of these initiatives. And I think one of the realizations that has come from this pendulum swinging so far is we can acknowledge as a commodity, information, I guess information as a commodity. And the ability to automate basic tasks or administrative tasks is something that people are figuring out. And if I can't at least improve my data efficiency and my data output, then I'm failing somewhere in the market because like this is like a subscription to open AI or clouds and not going to cost me any more than 20 bucks a month. 

Right. So point being, if employees are not getting more efficient, are not getting better at delivering basic tasks and basic output, there is a fundamental question that's being asked now is why? And why can't you improve the work that you're doing and why can't you, you know, I can hire other people to do this work or I can, you know, there are always going to be questions about what part of your work can we automate. And so I think that there is a fundamental shift in the thinking that has occurred probably over the last even to like year and a half, years. It's not been long, but I would say that specifically in the last year, you're, I think you're starting to see founders think like, wait, like you should be producing at a higher output than you have in the past. 

Could integrate more. Dale, do you agree? Is it an EA? Is it an A? Is it somewhere in the middle? 

I think the employers do have the leverage right now. However, I would say, except for the workers that have AI literacy and can prove out a literacy from a productivity perspective. So I think we've, we've flown the pendulum so far to everyone's trying to build these boss, trying to the players box. I can let go of my BD staff, for example, and I can just put in a point solution. 

I won't name any of them or I can have AI generated or I can hire somebody to start building these things. And they're not seeing the results they need to see back to challenges just in general in the demand generation world. So then if someone comes in from an AI literacy perspective and can prove out AI literacy from a macro level, they'll have a leg up in the competition of the people that are looking to get jobs. 

But I agree with Jake. In the last 12, 18 months, they get kind of swung into the employer space. But that will also start shifting as well. For example, if leadership isn't AI literate, they haven't been playing around with LGBT or LLMs or whatever. Like that mid market manager is going to be let go as well. So like now you're going to have a pool of people that are out there trying to get jobs and like who's going to get the job. 

The job is going to be people that are AI literate can have conversations, can articulate how the AI first space or the AI native space will help generate more productivity and work like execution. 

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Yeah, I'm at Hellier as well. I think that the employers absolutely have the leverage now. I think that when you look at the ability to drive efficiency amongst the team and arguably get a one and a half to three and a half X return on what you used to get, the fake is higher. And I tell you, I've spoken with three founders last week, who as part of their interview process, very specifically are digging into, hey, Jake, tell me how you use AI to accelerate ABC. Walk me through how you would use AI to solve this problem. And I think what you're seeing now instead of the exercises that used to be very time and resource dependent to prove that you could do the job, the exercises now, how quickly can you do it? Here's your exercise. I think that's a good exercise. Screenshare and show me how you're going to use AI to solve X problem. And if you cannot do that, you are not going to get hired. I don't think AI is going to mass replace every rule out there. I think repetitive roles are. But if you can't articulate how you're going to use AI to be really good at your job and be better at your job, I think you're going to have a big problem. 

That's a dangerous slippery slope. And show me how you're going to like solve a problem with chat GBP or Claude or any of the other platforms. Like, I think that becomes a slippery slope down to copying someone's personal ID, something like that, or exposing risk or I don't know. 

But if you work for me and you're doing it, it doesn't then become my ID? 

That's what I mean. I agree either way, by the way. 

I think it's a trap question because I think you're being asked to do something that they probably do not want you doing when you're actually working for them. But they're going to ask you to do it during an interview process. I call bullshit on it. 

Yes and no, though. I mean, I think every founder, every CEO is going to want you to use AI to your advantage. It's how much to your advantage. But think about all the bullshit tasks people used to be asked to do. Like I can tell you, I interviewed for a CRO role and I was asked to build a five year revenue model. Like go up off with that. Like that's like a lot of work and a lot of time. And I know damn well if the three of us are interviewing, you're going to ask all of us to put a model together. You're going to take what you like out of both. And there's your model and we all can give you free work problems. 

I think with Del, like somebody in Del said earlier, I think is the key in this thought, is whether it's right or it's wrong. The thing that people need to be mindful of is that it's happening and here's why, right? 

There is data proving that like employers are planning to reduce 40% of their workforce with initiatives around AI. That's just where the brain is. It's not that it's right or it's wrong. It's that's where the sentiment or the trend is going. Benioff the other day said, less employees, more AI. That's not just themselves. That was part of a discussion on Dev too. It is the hype, right? Because that is the hype, founders, leaders, teams are going to make the mistake of leaning into that and making those choices. And that will affect the employment market. I think things will balance, but you just got to keep that in the back of your mind. 

So like Del's point earlier is if you are not part of that team that understands how to use AI, how to add value and contribute to the team's efficiency and output because you have a skill in AI, you are putting yourself on the chopping block not because you're wrong, but because you're gambling with the mind of a founder who might lean in to the hype. Totally agree. 

Could not agree more. All right, let's shift gears a little bit here. Let's talk about customer success. So historically, in my opinion, customer success has been seen as kind of this like afterthought, right? Like your job is like, sort of make sure customers are happy if they call it and they have a problem, like make sure they're taken care of and to try to prevent the leaky bucket, which we can certainly talk a little bit about. Yay or nay, customer success is no longer an afterthought and is now arguably being considered as much revenue producing responsible as the sales team. 

Dale. Yeah, definitely. Yay. Like I think I've been pounding this drum for a year and a half. I like customer success is super important. And I'm seeing a lot of like front end salespeople, BDs wanting to move to an AM role of customer successful versus a pure play sales role top of funnel. 

So I'm seeing a lot of that movement happening. The good customer success people that are in the space have not traditionally had the sales chops to be able to identify opportunities, drive a deal, make sure that they're listening for the key moments in a conversation to identify the deal and bring it through the funnel. Even though that's a lot less expensive to do the cost of sale or the cost of expansion is a lot lower and a lot less. But there's this mindset shift set happening where it's making sure that you're a revenue generating organization and while being a customer advocate. So I 100% agree. I think I don't believe any any organization is not doing that. In fact, with a customer success mindset at the jump of the sale is going to survive. 

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, this is this is also a big yay right now. Look, like with the economic pressures that we're seeing in the market, plus the added expectation or the thinking around efficiency, naturally, again, you're going to see founders thinking, like, what more can I do with myself team and my revenue team to drive greater output? And one of those is like, how can we drive more efficiency out of customer success is no longer going to be thought as a support arm of the business, but a revenue engine for the business? 

And how can that happen? So I absolutely think that this is going to be a continued conversation. This, you know, we have this conversation 10 years ago with marketing and sales. 

Now, we're just having this conversation now with customer success and sales and it's becoming a greater reality with the with the pressures and the resources and tools that we have. So like, you got to get this figured out. You have to understand that it's coming. 

Like, don't fight the thought. So lean in and understand what it means because what I'll say is the post pandemic world learned that we could survive and stay alive if we invested in customer success and retention. And in that investment, we realized that we could do more than just retention. We could grow. And so like that's the reality. 

I'm a hard yay on this. I think you both brought up good points. Dale, like I've seen more AEs be willing to go into like AM expansion roles that I ever had in my career. And Jake, to your point, post pandemic, it's not just about retaining. Retaining is table six. If you are not retaining, expanding, growing, cross selling, upselling, you're not going to have a holistic revenue venture. And I love that you brought up the point about marketing, right? 

Because we just had this conversation. You and I are the clients this week. Like, let's stop talking about how many MQLs you're creating and let's start talking about the amount of pipeline you're creating that actually converts to revenue. Everyone in the go to market org is responsible for revenue. And I, for one, am thrilled to see that customer success is now going in this direction. 

Like when was the last time you heard a CS team that you worked with talking about CSAT and MPS as like the exciting North Star? 

That like healthy CS team or ACS team? Yeah, because the direction that you're seeing more of the CS teams you're working with, we're working with talking about needing to focus on NRR and GRR. Yeah, every healthy CS team that I think we speak with and that we're a part of. 

Listen, don't get me wrong. CSAT and MPS are important and absolutely should be tracked. But the North Star, how are we successful? What are my bonuses paid on? Revenue, NRR, GRR expansion, period. Hard stop. 

100%. And I think if feedback that we've been talking about, as we said, integration between sales, marketing, CS, but the closer all these departments can get together and understanding what the customers are really wanting. Because the other underlying problem that we're seeing kind of back to the leaky process syndrome is that there's these zombie products. They're products that cannot put additional work into the product. And yet we're still trying to sell it to customers. And so there's product challenges that companies are having and those product challenges are not going to go away. And it's like, do you invest more in the product or do you generate a cash cow? And so those, those decisions are having to be made. And then they're cutting to the bone all the way in the organization. And so don't wait till it's too late that you're losing customers. 

Not anything to that. Like if you're doing that, you're losing. If you're not shifting your thinking to focusing on not just retention, but now the focus of your CS organization now is how do we directly impact turn contraction, upsells and cross-sells and proactively working towards that? 

Then you're already like making a mistake. So I guess it's you got to set your sights on what are we actually doing to impact revenue through the exercises around preventing turn contraction, driving up self-expansion and retention? 

100%. All right. Shifting gears again. Yay or nay. If you want to be successful 2025 and beyond, verticalized SaaS is the way to go. Jake, you're up first. 

This one's interesting. I don't know if I have a strong yay or nay, but I what I am seeing in the market is I am leaning. I am being compelled that this is a this is a yay and it's a consistent yay. And something that I hadn't seen in the past, for example, what like what we're seeing is verticalized SaaS businesses are being are are are are. Able to take advantage of micro trends that are occurring in the market. As an example, we have a client who is hyper verticalized in the veterinary space and they provide a very niche survey to a very niche persona, but has a pretty decent cam. 

They grew to close almost 5 million in revenue and ARR in just over one year because of his hyper verticalization. Another another unique scenario that like compelled me is you look at you look at industries like healthcare, for example, and and things that drive the drive the forced behavior around compliance with HIPAA regulations and other things. These hyper verticalized compliance driven niche markets are are making tools a requirement and needs to have not a nice to have they they are what keep the lights on. So like these there's there's healthy data they're supporting that hyper verticalized. SaaS startups are growing at 10% faster than than their peers in the industry. 

Dale. This is an interesting one for me as well. I'm on the fence with it right now, but I'm going to tie it back to some AI stuff. I think the reason why is getting so much traction as well is because you can create products in the SaaS world from AI very quickly. 

So people can spin things up on a super verticalized. You don't even need a huge stand, but you can spin up a product fairly quickly with some of the AI platforms and generate a soft and generate software to test it out and to see if you get traction in a much more compressed time frame. And then if you if you're getting traction, you have that that if you have that that you're starting to see product market fit, then you'll actually go out and build the rest of the product out. So you have this you have this methodology of building rapidly like rapid prototyping and then getting product market potentially yes or no in a much more condensed space where where you speak like 18 months to 24 months. Let's do it in three months, see what we're getting for any kind of revenue. And then if that's making sense, let's like double down and really can really build out a enterprise solution. 

Yeah, exactly. I think about like this, right? When we talk about product market fit, we talk about selling the same thing the same way to the same persona over and over and over, right? And instead of what everyone eagerness is to do right there is like, OK, now what else can we do to break this and throw more product at it or throw more personas at it or throw more vertical out it so we can scale scale scale. Essentially, the argument here is forget all that. Now go deeper. 

You're selling the same thing the same way the same persona. Now like how do you capture that? Right? How do you stay in that space for a minute and go and go longer? 

Yeah, so I do think that a lot of the successful orgs that we're seeing right now are either hypervertiglize or attempting to be hypervertiglize. But I think part of that, Dale, the your point is it's easier to do that with the App Ent and AI. There's so much that it accelerates. But I think there's always an argument to be made that like know what you're really good at and let other people do the rest. 

And I think that in my opinion, as the market continues to evolve, we're going to start to see more divestiture, if you will, and more focus on being hypervertiglized and knowing what you're really good at, which will then lead to consolidation in the verticalizations. That's about two cents. All right, we've got a few more minutes here. As we start to wrap, and I feel like the three of us could yank forever, but where's GoToMarket going? And I know that's a broad sentence, but we asked this the last time the three of us got together. 

We tend to ask it on every episode of the podcast, but I don't know that the three of us really like ever sit down other than like relevant to our business. But where's GoToMarket going? What's the future of GoToMarket? I used to say over the next six to twelve months, and I feel like I can't say that anymore because we're the hell could predict that far out. Where's GoToMarket going over the next quarter now? 

Yeah, I think there's going to be, I think we're going to start seeing a lot of the companies that are trying to do top of funnel, getting top of funnel. They're going to have to try a different place. So I think we're struggling with the outreach to top of funnel. I actually think it lends ourselves back to the days of like snail mail and outreach and personalization with somebody opening or something. I think a lot of what Dale Dupree is doing and while that works for a long period of time, I think exponentially it's going to work because people just aren't responding to other people. We need to do pattern interrupts into what's happening. 

With the advent of AI, everything is looking the same. So it doesn't even matter if you have great subject lines or things are like, it's almost too much and our brains from a human perspective can't take it. We need to do a pattern interrupt. And I think that pattern interrupt is more on-site, more in-person, more personalized from like a, not like, hey, you went to college, but like, let me send you something that you really care deeply about. That's how you talk about it on LinkedIn. So I'm going to go opposite of AI. There you go. 

I like it. Jake, what do you think, man? 

I mean, actually build on it and say that it's AI-powered humans. So as the early majority swung this pendulum, they're realizing that didn't work. And so I think over the next quarter or two, the effort is going to be, how do we start doing what I'm calling like more craft AI initiatives where we are being more thoughtful about our craft and what we do well and what has worked for us to do more of that with AI powering that level of intentionality and the craft work that goes into it so that we don't lose the human in it, but that we can do more of the good as opposed to what I think everyone has figured out is accelerating more of the suck that they've done, right? And I think that the laggers are going to continue going down this path that everyone's figured out. And I think you're going to continue seeing people struggling. I think for the next several quarters, we're feeling top of funnel with driving pipeline and like math outbound campaigns that aren't working. I think you're going to see like a continuing challenge of people damaging their domain scores. And like just like we have come full circle, even like the outbound initiatives where companies like Outreach years ago were warning us about not making this mistake of spamming your TAM. 

We're doing that right now. Like that's what's happening when people are so eager to adopt AI, they're doing that. And so I think it's going to swing back to those who understand the importance of it and are ahead of it and are the leaders. I guess the leaders in this space is craft AI, human powered AI initiatives. 

Yeah, I agree. I think for me, the age of the LinkedIn guru is going to end. The free 99 playbook is going to go away. People are tired of being burned by the same BS that they've seen for the past year. I agree, Jake, that people's domains are going to go in the toilet. And the problem is they're not going to be able to fix it. And that's what I think is going to happen over the next quarter. 

If they're not listening, they think they're smarter because AI tells them that they can do this. And they're going to do so much reputational damage that they're not going to be able to come back from it. I do think we're going to see more of the verticalization. I think we're going to see some consolidation as well. And I love the term craft AI and I'll double down on that. I think that if you are 

using AI in the right way and balancing it with a human centered approach, that's going to be the key. Having AI is just hitting a button and letting it run by itself, I think is going to destroy you. I think if you mix AI in the mix with a human touch, if you use it responsibly, and if you really focus on where AI can and should help, those are going to be the folks that become the domain expertise and really start to grow. And then lastly, and this is one that we didn't talk about, I think we're going to continue to see the advent of social selling become even more important because while AI is great, I'm a big believer that people want to buy from people. 

100%. Good night. Final take. Dale, final words. Final last words. Good. Jake, no. 

Just get back to basics. We're trying to make things too complicated. There's 101, retail, have, be, humble, understand what you're trying to, we all have value that we can deliver in the process, align to your buyers, understand what they're trying to accomplish and drive impact versus trying to do all these fancy things that aren't working. 

Yeah. Yeah, I guess my kind of final words is, I think the companies that are going to win aren't just adopting new tools and new, you know, new AI. They're adopting a new mindset. I think that's the key. And efficiency is just, it's the mean, it's not the end game itself. It's just, it's the launchpad. So like, I guess the idea here being, if you're, if you're building for the future, you ask yourself, are you playing by last year's playbook or are you actually building the playbook of the future as you're iterating in the current market? 

I love that. That's the question right there. Are you playing by yesterday's playbook or are you playing by today's playbook when you're going to help you win? Dale, Jake, we need to do this more often. We don't do it enough. I would say thank you both for joining, but it's not like either you have a damn choice. 

But it was awesome. We spent a couple of days with you to everyone listening. If you have questions about anything we spoke about, if you disagree, if you agree, ask Adam. Ask Adam. 

That's right. Ask Adam. Please reach out to us. These are the topics we'd love to talk about. 

Ping, either Jake, Dale or myself, Dale, telephone number, no kidding. But yeah, y'all. Have an awesome rest of the day. Thanks so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as we did. 

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