Episode #101 Use Category Design and AI to Build Your Market From Scratch with Karthi Ratnam

Bridge the biggest gaps in your go-to-market motion with Karthi — one-name visionary behind Audience Haus & Rev Genius. On this episode of Bridge The Gap powered by Revenue Reimagined, we dig into:
- 🧩 Category Design vs. GTM – Why positioning alone won’t cut it
- 🚧 The hidden risks of skipping category creation (and when to play inside the existing market)
- 🤖 AI in GTM – Real vs. hyped-up uses, and how to avoid blowing your pipeline
- 🔧 Early warning signs your GTM motion is breaking — and the tactical fixes that matter
- 🔄 How to build agile, human+AI revenue teams ready for constant change

If you’re tired of surface-level marketing fluff and want deep, battle-tested strategies that scale — this is your roadmap.

Follow Karthi - https://www.linkedin.com/in/karthiratnam/

PS - huge shout out to Sendoso for sponsoring our show.

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🎁 Lastly, we have a gift for you! We’re tired of seeing people getting critical GTM components wrong. Need help with your ICP, Buyer Persona, and Value Prop? Tired of the shitty “resources” people “give away” to gain followers?

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Transcript

This is Bridge the Gap powered by Revenue Reimagined, the podcast where we dive into all things revenue. Each episode, we bring you the top founders and go-to-market leaders to challenge how you think about growth and help you bridge your biggest go-to-market gaps. I'm Adam Jay. And I'm Dale Zwizinski. 

As always, thanks for hanging with us. There's a million ways you can be spending your time and we're grateful for you choosing to spend it with us. Be sure to check out our newsletter if you want the show notes and tactical advice on how to bridge your GTM Gaps. Let's get to it. 

Welcome back to another episode of the Bridge the Gap podcast powered by Revenue Reimagined. Today's guest only needs to go by one name. We don't need to. We will just go Karthi in quotes. Co-founder of Audience House and Rev Genius, a category designer who helps brands turn story into strategy and community into pipeline. She's helped scale teams, shape narratives, and rethink how companies go to market, not by optimizing funnels, but by actually helping to create movements. 

We're going to talk about what's broken and modern go to market, what AI is changing, and how smart teams are building systems that actually stand the test of time. Karthi, thanks for joining us. 

Thank you, Adam. I'm going to talk about your introduction. 

Listen, if I do nothing else, I could do a pretty mean intro. 

Karthi, let's start with GTM versus category design. Let's jump right into it. Let's start with something you say often. Most teams confuse positioning with category design. Break that down for us. What's the risk of skipping category work? What does positioning or running out of gas mean? What's the real-world moment where the design, the category, has changed as a trajectory of a company? Right. 

Okay. There's a lot for us to unpack there. I'm going to take the purest view and then the mainstream view and talk about both. The purest view of category design and GTM is that category designers create the market. They don't go to market. So inherently purest category designers, what they believe is that go-to-market can only be done if there's an existing market already there and you're just going to market. Whereas if you're a purest category designer, you are creating a whole new market or you are not going to market. But on the flip side, go-to-market leaders would argue category design is a well-formulated thought-through strategy of go-to-market. 

It's a way to go-to-market where you are, instead of going to market, you are creating the market, but it's still a go-to-market motion that you're running. So there are two hypotheses. Both in all roads lead to Rome-typing. Both end up taking you to the same destination, but how you look at it is different. So the purest view of category design, if you take that, the nuance there is that they will always be focused on evangelizing the category first. Whereas if you're a go-to-market leader who's creating a category, sometimes that can just be positioning, but you're not actually creating a market. You're creating white space in an existing market. You're finding white space in an existing market and playing there. 

So that's the big difference. So now for example, there are examples and examples of companies who have done category creation versus just go-to-market. Now, the biggest takeaway here is, and you guys obviously are both CROs, is not everybody should actually be doing category design at all. In fact, we would strongly advise most people not to create a category. 

Like, I don't know. It very much depends on the personality of the founders, the product vision that you have, and the direction you have to go the distance. Because category design is not something that you see like, it's not going to create a billion-dollar market like, oh, in a year, that's not happening. Like, it's not going to happen. You have to have staying power. 

So that's the thing. And I think what you just said about having to have the staying power is so important that most people don't realize. Everyone's like, you know, I'm going to go out there and we're going to create this category, right? Like, I worked for a CEO who wanted to redefine, call it, you know, RevOps and forecasting. 

And we're going to create this custom category, and we're going to be the new forecasting. And like, it didn't end well. Dale knows the story. You actually know the story, too. We won't call anyone out by name. 

You can't do that. When does, like, when do you create a category? Or when do you skip that category work and say, we're just going to do better and redefine the category that already exists? 

Because I think there's a lot of good companies that do really good at that redefinition. You don't have to be the first, but you have to be the best. Yes. So technically, right, Facebook wasn't the first. Yeah. 

My face was, right? But they just... 

Oh my God, we're old. 

You're old. Yeah, thank you, Dale. That's a myth. They just named, framed and claimed it better. And Dale, to your point, that's where even within category design and creation, the positioning really matters. Your ability to own that narrative and that villain is very important, right? 

I mean, I believe I'm not wrong in saying, Lyft is the one who actually were kind of pioneered, kind of, you know, on demand sort of rise, but Uber sort of ended up creating a category for it, right? 100%. So those are the nuances, right? Just because you're first to entry does not always mean you're the person who sees that future differently enough to take people on that journey. So the journey is really important. 

So I have a couple of friends who are creating this probiotic vegan yogurt, right? So this is a really interesting story. So, and they understand fundamentally about category creation and design and all that stuff. 

And because it's a, you know, it's a fast-moving item, right? Getting shelf space and stuff like that is really hard for them. So they decided to create a new category. So as a friend, they came to me for support and I helped them name and frame it, everything. But they sat on it for three years because they said, oh, my product is not ready yet. 

Right? Now what's happened is the people, now they want to launch the product and they're like, oh, like we have to build a community. And I'm like, you guys should have started this a year ago because now you have to make up for, let's say, 48 months of what you know and the journey you've been on. And you have to fast-track that and take everybody on that journey and get them to the same place and mindset that you are in. Because you already see the future. You've done the research, you've talked about it, you've done the product, all of that stuff. 

Nobody else knows what's going on. And that's the biggest risk in that your ability to see the future, but also take people on the journey to you seeing that future. It's easier for us to see as they'll, I mean, we face this even in Gourmardier, right? We see something, we see it, pardon my friends, you see when she's going to get the pan, right, with experience. But we sometimes find it really hard to communicate it to the rest of the team as to why we need to mobilize now because we are not articulating that our journey of thought process to seeing the city in the pan very well. And this extends to Category Creation as well because you have to take people from a current reality to a new one. 100%. 

100%. Category Creation is hard. Like I did it, I did it one time. I remember doing it in like the model-driven development world and we were trying to do it with Gartner. And it was like super difficult, super expensive. Yeah, I mean, luckily enough we kind of rode Pegasystems' tails because they were kind of on that same path. So you kind of like try to find somebody and do that fast-follower motion because the actual Category Creation, you need a lot of money and you need a lot of like time or you need some time. 

Well, you need money, you need time, more than that you need patience from C-level, right? Because everyone's like, oh, attribution, like when am I going to see revenue, all of that stuff, right? And you're like, oh, you talked to me in five years with me? Yeah. 

So that ties into my next question. And it's funny, like we have to talk to me in five years, but Dale and I were talking this morning and I actually posted this morning about speed in Go To Market and how things are changing, arguably by the minute, with artificial intelligence. But I think, you know, is it real AI or is it delusional AI? So like everyone's cramming AI into Go To Market right now, right? Like, oh, AI could do this and AI could do that and build an agent for this and build an agent for that. From your perspective, like where's the real signal that AI is like real and needed and useful and where are people being like so delusional with like, AI can fix this? 

So I think, okay, so I think for all of the humans out there, I think there's no real danger right now at least of humans being completely replaced by AI, right? We've all talked to the AI models enough to know that there's a feeling, that's a threshold, is there going to change in the future? Sure, maybe, right? But right now it requires human intervention, right? 

So that part is delusional in thinking that it's going to replace us right now, but when not, we have to be extremely pessimistic and think that it will replace us and plan for that future, because that won't happen, right? We all have to ask a lot of people. That's it. So then the second part is, and Adele and Ademati, you guys already know this, anytime there's a new technology, there's this Heartless Character concept, right? Where we all like kind of leapfrog and say, oh, now we're going to have Heartless Characters with this new technology and we go build for, build these Heartless Characters and start building the road for the characters, you know, and then you're like, okay, so we have the Heartless Characters now, but it can't take us anywhere because we don't have the infrastructure for it, right? And that's the big delusion part that's happening, which is we're slapping AI on to everything without solving for core good market. 

Core good market problems have not changed. If it's siloed, AI is not going to work. If you have no clear-leaf on properties, AI is not going to work. If you have dirty data, I'm just going to amplify it, right? If you have crappy, like, lead information, it's going to take that, leave, score it, and start a whole automation pipeline that you can't stop because it's a dead take. It's learned and it's done it. And it will learn and it will send you a signal saying, oh, look, this intern who is Atlas the CEO, downloaded the e-books, and now you've got a Heartless Characters, run an STR, run, right? But then there's the STRs, like, after four hours of research. Actually, it's not a CEO. 

It's an intern and they downloaded the book like ages ago. What's happening to our pipeline, right? So those core good market issues are not going away, right? See, the biggest thing we have to understand, and I remember telling this to somebody else as well, AI does not fundamentally understand human personalities, politics, egos, silos, all of that stuff, right? So the part where we have to level up as humans is truly unifying good market. If we don't, blackmail on top of it is not going to work. Like, it's going to fail and the best part is we're going to blame AI for it. 

I was just talking to Adam about this this morning. Like, we have had good market problems, the same good market problem for 30, 40 years. Like, it's the same problem. It's just how we execute and solve the problem could be a little bit different. And so where we're looking at going is like, let's give you an example. 

I just posted a little video on this today. We have, most people need market awareness. They need to be able to generate a bunch of content because there's so much content out there. If you're not generating content, no one's finding you. If you generate a little bit of content, no one's finding you. If you're not generating really decent content, no one's finding you. So now we get into a place where we're having conversations with customers. 

Like, how do you get awareness? Okay, let's generate a blog. Let's do a podcast. Let's do derivative content on social media, et cetera, et cetera. And then they're like, okay, traditional go-to-market is let's go hire three or four content marketers or let's hire a content agency and they're going to go generate this content. And let's find out. 

I don't know, eight months from now we'll find out if it's working because you need to like flush it through. Or you go modern GCM, which is AI enabled, AI orchestrated, and you're doing the research, you're pulling out content, and you put the human in the loop to like make sure that it is exactly on-brand or on-point. Mostly AI can do it now, like in the branding space. And so there's, it's not one or the other. 

It's picked the way you want to do it. And then, but executives can't get over the fact of, okay, I got to go spend $15,000, $20,000 to build an AI system. I'm going to go buy a writer or a jasper and we're going to put, we're going to hit the symptom of the problem and we're not going to hit the real problem, which is like, we have to fix our process, which could be ICP buying for someone. I'm not going to get into the back end of it. 

But it's like, that is, so you'd rather go spend $70,000, $80,000, $90,000 on a person versus $15,000, $20,000 on a system. So that's where, that's the disconnect we're having today. 

But so I want to double down on that. Sorry, Karthi, because it still goes into shit in is shit out. And I think that's exactly where you were starting. So Jason Lemken. Watch your language. We have a woman on the show. 

Have you met me? And do you not see the disclaimer that goes out with the show? So Jason Lemken made a post this morning and it was all about how he never logs into HubSpot, right? HubSpot's a CRM. He never logs in and he's so happy that ChatGPT can now do deep HubSpot research because he could just ask ChatGPT, you know, about HubSpot. And I actually did that this morning with our HubSpot and with a couple of clients and since there's a HubSpot. And the problem and multiple people, including myself, said this on his post, like, that's great that AI can pop into your HubSpot and answer your questions. But it's going to give you the same shit information if you were to log in and look at yourself because the reps are putting the same crap in there. That doesn't fix the problem. 

No. Fixing Gormart actually AI amplifies it. And to their point, right, say you, you spoke very eloquently about the two paths you can take, right? Like modern GTM or like AI, before AI GTM, right? So if you take the modern GTM approach, right, the only advantage you have is it's going to expose the whole tasker. 

Now you don't have to go wait for eight months. And who makes you going to know what's resonating or not resonating, right? Because there I can do stuff at scale. But it's still going to expose all of the holes you have. You're still, you're humans are still going to have to fix it. You guys are all still going to have to sit in a room, identify your properties, you know, your metrics, your text, your data standards, all of that stuff's not changing. If anything, data makes it all work, right? And we all know this. If you, I mean, we saw what happened with like the anthropic and how they fed it some information and it used it back, right? 

When the engineer was trying to shut it down. So on one hand, while that's information about how we can be like a liberal, a medical on another hand, it also shows that if you create shit data, it's going to use it, right? So that's just the reality of it, right? 

And with any technology, right, you're always going to have the people who are like the ones who hype it up to say, oh my God, this is going to fix everything. And then there are the others. So like, it's a little bit like, you know, a political landscape where you have the progressives, the far right and the far left, right? The progressives are more the ones like, wait, can we talk about this? And can we actually understand what grass root issues are? 

So go to market leaders need to be that we need to understand grass root issues because if we don't solve for that, it's not going to fix it. It's going to be worth. It's going to be worth and it'll hit our revenues faster. It'll expose all of the life faster. And then the worst part is like I said before, we'll blame AI. We won't blame the people. 

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Well, and the other thing is we're going to we're going to destroy credibility for people like company credibility, human credibility. So there's a lot of things that we'll go downstream from there. Let's switch off out of AI a little bit because we could probably go through. 

We could probably have four podcasts on AI. So let's talk about when GTN starts to crack. So let's talk about what the early signs are that a company's GTN isn't working. Is it because no leads? Is it because of no structure? And then what should they do? What should teams audit first? 

So that's interesting, right? Because I feel sometimes you can be closing a lot, but your go to market motion could be broken. Right? If you have strong individual brands within the company, right? If you have strong personal brands, founded brands within the company, you could be closing a lot of business, but your go to market motions could be fundamentally broken. But you're only closing business because you're riding on X or Y brand. So that's why we have to be very careful. The biggest problem that I see is that when you start a company, you go fast, fast, fast, because you want to find market fit. Somehow you want to find market fit. So you add on all of these things and you collect them as you go on. 

I think there was like a movie, like a Transformers movie where I wanted to transform a boss or whatever, just kind of collected all the parts from all of the other Transformers and made himself into a bigger one. That kind of happens with companies where you kind of add on and add on and add on and you don't take stock. And suddenly you're running all of these motions unnecessarily without clearly looking at revenue streams. The biggest thing we need to look at as a company all the time is what are our GT emotions, what revenue streams are they getting attributed to? 

If they're not getting attributed to a revenue stream, are they augmenting an existing revenue stream by supporting it? Is that something we can have a conversation about or are we defensive about it? Defensive just kills good market. It just kills it. 

If you stop curiosity and that go-to-market stream, like, because it's going to change every so often. So I know I'm going to say something but I don't want to ask you this question. 

No, you're fine. I ask a lot of... We've been asking a lot. How often should you be reviewing your fundamentals in go-to-market? Like your IEP buying persona, value proposition? How often should you be reviewing those? 

Well, I would say if you're a SMB type of business, especially now with like AI and stuff, I would say it's at least once a quarter. Right? You should be reviewing it. If you're a larger business, you could potentially go six months without reviewing it. 

But you... it really is a continuous exercise of learning. If you're not learning, if you're not reviewing, if you're not re-looking at your processes and your people and your organizational structure, your go-to-market is failing. You just don't know because you're seeing the numbers on the pipeline. You're seeing the numbers revenue getting generated, but those could be dealier closing that was generated a year ago. 

And you don't know what's happening at the end of... You may have a lot of attrition happening. 

Yeah. Spot on with all of that. Karthi, so you've worked with your fair share of exec teams throughout your career. Where is the disconnect in your mind specifically with founders or maybe even senior level VPs that think they know? With where... what they think, how they think GTM works and how GTM really works. Yeah. 

So that's an awesome question. And it's a little political, right? As you guys know. 

We're a little political here, so it's okay. 

It's a little political, right? Because it depends on personality, right? So to me, GTM is one part vision, one part process, right? Some leaders, senior leaders, are very good at process. And that's the most important thing, right? 

Which hamstrings the GTM process? Because you're not willing to try anything new. You want to maintain the status quo. Go to market is not about maintaining the status quo. It's about putting processes in place that help you innovate faster. 

So what's the balance? Because I agree with you. I think we have a lot of people who very much it's about the status quo. And then others where they want to take such unreasonable risks that they are arguably breaking a fiduciary responsibility to the company. 

Oh, one from Seth. So ideal scenario is you want somebody who's heavy on process, right? The process enables you to take risks, right? Because if you're really good on process, you can take calculated risks. And that's important, to be able to take calculated risks. 

If you do your good market right and you have the right personality, you don't just have to maintain the status quo. You can take calculated risks. You can take risks with a percentage and probability of success. 

And you can spread the risk by saying this is risk one, risk two, risk three. We're going to try all of these. It's a little bit like A-B testing, but you're innovating with like your A-B testing. That's your innovation, right? 

So you want that personality who's not like, oh my god, I'm going to throw the company to shit and like because I'm going to jump off a cliff and you know, Faith will catch me, which is awesome, right? Which is great. Yeah, you got it. 

That's good, right? Early stage founders really do need that because you need that kind of Maverick sort of style, you know, wanting to just relieve off a cliff type thing to be able to actually be a founder, right? That's what makes you a founder. But over time, founders have to also become growers and builders. You have to be able to grow. It's not just enough that you've now built this amazing thing, right? You have to be able to sustain it. And that's where it usually goes to shit. I think we're all like using shit a lot and offending it. 

Karzy, let's switch up one more before we go into some other fun things. What's next in go to market? Like what's the next big thing? Where are things headed? Where are teams headed? What's the next dead framework that is out there? Like we've seen all these frameworks with the next best dead ones. And what's one lever that no one's using right now? 

So how teams are going to be changing? Let me answer that question. And I think we've all seen research that indicates to us this. I believe the time of us just managing humans is over, right? All go to market leaders need to be empowered to manage humans and AI. You will be managing humans and AI. 

That's your team, right? And here's the problem though. For now traditionally, and Del, you talked about this, go to market hasn't changed for the last 40 years, etc. Which is true. However, this is the first time in history though, once you've gotten to a C level position, you're having to relearn a bunch of things. You're always relearning, but this is different in that you have to almost go down to an SDR level and relearn the sales process with AI. Because now you have to manage agents and people. And you can't put agency processes, agency go to market. You cannot enable agency go to market processes if you don't fundamentally understand from the ground up how they work. 

100%. 100%. We were just talking to somebody last week, we were doing some sales training for them. We did initial sales training. They hired an AI analyst, which is a start on where they're going. But the question we started having conversation on was where do you put the AI agent? Do you put them as the manager of the people, which I found very bizarre to say. 

Or do you put them as a sidecar, like a chief of staff, to that manager to help? People are at least thinking about that, at least people that are going through this process. I'm in a community and there was an executive recruiter in the community and she's saying now that they are looking at when they're hiring people, do you know AI, do you know AI agents, how are you going to implement AI? We talk about losing your job, you will just not have a job. 

You will not be able to get a VP of sales, a director role, a CRO role without understanding pretty deeply how this works. I think about, I've had to dust off my cobwebs on my university education to get back into some of this work. So take the time and do the work, people won't do it. I guess that, but that's where you'll be in trouble. 

That's 100% where you'll be in trouble. But speaking of playbooks, right? So the playbooks are dying because AI can replicate some of the scale, right? It could create playbooks of scale. So that's the reason why the playbooks are dying. But if you have a really good core go-to-market framework, which creates a shared ontology that people can use within organizations and outside of it, that's actually going to be liquid go-to. 

I'll tell you why. It's all because when you have a shared framework and common language, everything documented that way, and a way to go to market in a way that augments all of your cross-functional, AI will actually perform better. And you will know where you need to deal to your point, what are the processes AI needs to do, Taz? What are the processes human needs to do? What is the overlap where you need human intervention? So having that core framework now actually becomes key. 

100%. So I agree. Dale spends the majority of his time transparently talking about this. And because the market is shifting so much, and this is where I think his product brain and his coder brain comes into place. So when you take all of that together and everything we've been talking about, what is the GTM team structure that's going to win in the next five years? To Dale's point, is it that you have an AI manager? I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. But what's the structure? Is it five to one, three to one, two to one? What does it look like? 

So one part of the answer is a little bit of a cop-out, and then I'll explain. Part of it is we don't know what we don't know, and that's the truth because we don't know where it's going to evolve. And this is probably, and here's where we talked about a mix of, having that mix of being able to be a risk taker but also have process is very important now. Those skills are going to become so key now purely because you have to live in the change. This is the first time probably in the history of kind of go-to-market and Dale, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts, where you kind of have to live in a constant state of not knowing where the technology is going to take you, but also trying to plan for it, right? 

Being agile enough to plan for it. So the future, Adam, to answer your question, GTM teams, we don't know what the ratio is going to be. At least I don't personally, but what I do know is they will have to have a mindset of being agile. They will have to have a mindset of wanting to try technology. So it's more a mindset thing right now than the makeup of the team because we don't know what the future, where it's going to go. Because, for example, just enabling being able to integrate with your local Google Drive and taking your information from that, put 50% of companies are business, right? 

Who are offering some level of that service. So you don't know what the future holds. But if you have an agile mindset and Dale, to your point, if you're able to dust off the cobwebs and relearn from, become an SDI in your organization and relearn what it looks like to run a sales process with AI, then you're set. 

Yeah, you asked a question about, and I think this is where I was originally not going through the learning process, is all the technology and how fast it changes. Like, I'm like open AI, quad, agentics, N8N, gum loop, like, you know, Amphi, like scrapers. Like, Clay was in the mix. Like, there's so many of these things happening that it's like, I needed some of this death dust to settle on some of this stuff before picking it up. Because to me, if you're driving into a technology and you go deep in it, I think Gary Vaynerchuk would always say like, it's not a waste of time because you would also be able to transfer that knowledge. But I think, psychologically, in human beings, like, we don't want to go do a bunch of things and then realize that that is not going to happen. So I think, you know, honestly, that was one of the reasons why I didn't pick it up right away, because I wanted some of the dust to settle. Now that some dust is settling, I wish I picked it up sooner. 

So I guess I would say that part. I mean, I started looking at this a year ago, but didn't like jump into it. As much as I have over the last three weeks, just because things are evolving super rapidly and there's everyone's creating their own agents, throwing them out there, putting them on an 8n, like all these communities. 

The problem still exists. And I will go to my grave saying this is that this is just a different way to execute a go to market strategy. If your go to market strategy isn't sound as we've been talking about, there's no way you're going to actually, you're not going to see the value and then you're going to say, well, this AI stuff sucks. And like, this is like, you know, this or this tool or that tool doesn't do what it's supposed to do. 

And it's like, well, you're only fixing a symptom of the problem. You still get a human still get to feed this thing. You got to learn it. You got to water it. You got to manage it. You got to manage it. 

I like the way you talk about it, Karthi. It's like, you're managing the AI like you would manage a human being. It's not like you set it and forget it on a human being. Like why are we setting it and forgetting it on the agent? Yes, it can learn on itself, but so can humans. 

Like it's not that humans can't go learn on themselves. So it's a good, this has been a really good conversation. So we want to wrap it up with a little bit of rapid fire since we've been so intense into all the go to market and everything happening. Let's let's let's play and up the mood a little bit. 

I have a few comments before you go to rapid fire, which is not been stressed enough, which we didn't talk about. I'm going to stress on it enough. AI agents just running them also do cost as much as a human do like all more. They are costly. They're not cheap. I mean, sure, like taxivity and stuff compared to like hiring a copywriter is cheap, but running an agent is still like a person. It's going to cost you money. 

Well, you have to have the infrastructure. There is, there's just different infrastructure. So it's like, do I hire three copywriters or do I hire an AI person to help structure everything? Like it, I would argue though, I don't think it is not nearly as expensive as human beings. So yes, I think you have to manage it is costly. 

It's not like you're this is where we've had some of these conversations. Like I'm going to go by Jasper for $50 a month or writer for $50 a month per person. Like that's not enough. You need to actually have a system in place to do that work. And that's where it's going to cost you some money. 

So, yeah, but just one tiny pushback and we can move to your rapid fire. They might not cost money, but if they screw up, it might end up costing you way more than a human ever. 

100% 100% again, that's our badge out. 

Strategy, strategy, like get the right strategy in place and then put the agents in. Exactly. Okay, rapid fire. Sorry about that. 

All right. Early bird or night owl? Early bird. 

What's the first app you check when you wake up in the morning? Link Dave. 

Yeah, favorite guilty pleasure snack. 

Favorite guilty pleasure snack. It's going to be an Indian snack. Oh, it's going to be an Indian snack. 

Why doesn't it have to be an Indian snack? It's not due to all day long. It's not due to all day long. It's not due to all day long. It's not due to all day long. It's not 

due to all day long. I'm going to bring some. 

Okay, okay, okay. I love it. This is a two-part question. What tech trend is overhyped and what tech trend is underhyped? 

Well, sadly, again, a little bit of a cop out, easy one, also hard one. AI is also simultaneously overhyped and unhyped. 

Avery. Interesting. What's one piece of go-to-market advice you used to swear by that now you look at it and you're like, holy shit, I can't believe I told people to do that? 

That's interesting. I've always had a mindset that people should change, so it's not that, but I'm thinking. Okay. Interesting. I'm not sure if I have one, but I'm going to think. That's okay. I'm not sure I have one, but if I do, I'll come back to you guys with that. 

Okay. Last one. Let's wrap this up. You travel around the world all over the place. Where's your dream vacation destination? 

Okay. Galapagos Island. Love it. I apparently want to go there and also not go there because I really like it. I really want to go see, but I also don't want to disturb the ecosystem. Do you see that? Yeah. 

Very nice. Yeah. So, finding thought advice is one thing for us to really think about, which is a lot of AI, AI, AI stuff is happening in SMVs. But funnily enough, the real transformation of AI is actually being driven by the large agency. Because what taking the time to define the strategy, which the SMVs are not. Yeah. Got it. 

100% don't disagree with that at all. Karthi, thank you so much for joining the show. Thanks for sharing your insights. Where can people find you in all your awesome companies? 

I'm available on LinkedIn, obviously, and I'm also a web genius, a community, but you can always look up Audience House and our newsletter, which I'm happy with. Thanks, all. 

I love it. Karthi, thanks for joining the show. 

Thanks, Joe. Thanks, Anna. Bye, guys. 

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