Episode #102 $300K ARR. 3 Founders. Zero SDRs. WTF?! with Amos Bar-Joseph

Adam and Dale dive deep with Amos Bar-Joseph, CEO & co‑founder of Swan AI, to unpack how his three‑person team and AI agent swarm drove $300K ARR in just 30 days with zero SDRs or ad budget. No hype. No spam. Just real strategy.

In this episode, you’ll discover:
 • How to leverage intelligence, not headcount, to scale GTM
 • Why off‑the‑shelf AI SDRs are a trap—and what works instead
 • The agent swarm playbook: from content to lead qualifying to outreach
 • How to avoid LinkedIn jail while automating at scale
 • Why story and personal brand matter more than the product alone

🔥 Pro Tip: Ready to build your own AI‑powered GTM funnels? Amos shares tools and tactics to customize your agent swarm around your strengths.

Follow Amos: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amos-bar-joseph/

PS - huge shout out to Sendoso for sponsoring our show.

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ZoomInfo is also a proud sponsor - check them out here!

🎁 Lastly, we have a gift for you! We’re tired of seeing people getting critical GTM components wrong. Need help with your ICP, Buyer Persona, and Value Prop? Tired of the shitty “resources” people “give away” to gain followers?

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Transcript

This is Bridge the Gap powered by Revenue Reimagined, the podcast where we dive into all things revenue. Each episode, we bring you the top founders and go-to-market leaders to challenge how you think about growth and help you bridge your biggest go-to-market gaps. I'm Adam Jay. And I'm Dale Zwizinski. 

As always, thanks for hanging with us. There's a million ways you can be spending your time and we're grateful for you choosing to spend it with us. Be sure to check out our newsletter if you want the show notes and tactical advice on how to bridge your GTM Gaps. Let's get to it. 

Welcome back to another episode of the Bridge the Gap podcast powered by Revenue Reimagined. Today's guest is Amos Barjoseph, who is the CEO and co-founder of Swan AI and one of, if not the sharpest builders in the AI GTM space right now. He sold two startups, scaled B2B revenue with automation and is building a small $30 million AR company with Get This, just three founders and a stack of AI agents that happen to have some pretty cool names. But he isn't just chasing scale, he's actually questioning what gets lost in the process. This isn't going to be your typical hype conversation about replacing fail-seams, go use AI, fire everyone. 

We're not talking about any of that shit. We're going to have a real look at what breaks when you go too fast, what works better than expected, and what the future of go-to-market might actually look like. Amos, thanks for joining us. Wow. 

Adam, thank you for that intro. I wish I could just take you with me to dinners and so on. 

I am in. I will be your hype man. I will just stand up there and do the intro. 

Let's do it. Let's do it. 

This is where you talk, Dale. Yeah, well, you messed up the script, so I didn't know what you were doing. So, Amos, thanks for joining. Appreciate it, man. So, 30K in 30 days with no SDRs. Let's start where everyone's whispering about. How would you generate 300K? Sorry, I said 30K. I correct myself. 300K in 30 days. We don't have to give you the accounting here at Revenue Reimagined. 

Exactly. I don't do any operations, by the way. That's not my thing. No SDRs, no ads spend. Walk us through how you did that. Yeah. 

So, I am a one-person GTM powerhouse. I move at start-up speed, but at enterprise scale. And we did that as a team. It was a team effort, actually. As you mentioned here, we're three founders on a mission to get to $30 million ARR. Just us and AI agents. That means that we can't throw bodies at the problem. We can't hire SDRs. We don't have huge marketing budgets. So, we don't have that ad spend war chest. 

Does that matter anymore? Does the ad spend war chest even matter anymore? 

I guess not. It doesn't, right? What we did, basically, is we tried looking at intelligence as leverage. We're trying to scale with intelligence, not with headcount. But the way we approached it is not by trying to automate ourselves away. It's not by hiring off-the-shelf AISDRs to spam our market. It was more about how can we discover that 100x version of ourselves, that 100x seller version of me. Not like what would be the 100x version of everyone. 

I want to hit this head-on. I just posted about this yesterday, and we've been talking about this. There's so many people out there that are just trying to buy off-the-shelf agents. 

I'll go to N8N, I'll go to Gumloop, I'll go to Make. You want to just download something and get it running because people are lazy as shit. Let's be honest. That's not the easy button. You have to customize and build it out to what you're trying to accomplish. Talk more about that. 

Yeah, definitely. It's nothing new with AI agents. GTM Alpha always comes from being different, not better. It's always about leveraging a playbook that maybe you have a unique insight into it, maybe it's very hard to accomplish. It's always about that, the fact that you're leveraging a playbook that others don't. If everyone is on the same playbook, then you're all fighting over the same intention, and it's hard for everyone. Those quick wins are problems that are built into the go-to-market DNA since forever. The best teams, they can just overcome it with just fighting hard and actually discovering the unique playbooks that could drive the most ROI. What we did at SWAM is we realized that automating ourselves away, off-the-shelf AI agents, that's the generic playbook. That's not work. We don't believe in that because what you'll get basically is a very low glass ceiling, a cheaper version of yourself with poorer quality. That's like the glass ceiling. In a shit-out. Yeah, worth version of myself. I pay less for that. Okay, wow. Not that amazing. 

I'm going to tell the editors to clip this and post it everywhere because people just do not get it. 

Yeah, 100%. I'm going to double down on how important is it. What we did, we built our entire AI agent strategy to go to market centered around a human being, not a replacement, but around a human being. 

That human being is me. I have Edo, the CPO, and Neve, the CPO. They are AI agent wizards. They've built an agentic swarm around my strengths and weaknesses. It all starts with my biggest passion, which is actually storyteller. I'm not your regular seller, which most sellers are not regular sellers. 

Every seller has their own unique advantage that unfair advantage they could double down on. Mine was storytelling. I have great ability to write LinkedIn posts and my LinkedIn game is on fire. 

We realized that that's an amazing opportunity to double down on that, not by building agents that could just help me produce more posts in a shitty quality with less resources, but how can we build a funnel of agents around my entire activity on LinkedIn? It goes like that, folks. If you're listening, this is how the funnel goes with our AI agent. 

I want access to this. 

You can actually build an AI agent that can teach you how to build it yourself step by step. If you want access to it, you can DM me on LinkedIn and I'll give it to you. A whole separate conversation. Definitely. If we look at the funnel, it all starts with actually writing the post themselves. I have Shakespeare, which really helps me in a collaborative way to write viral posts that generate over 1.5 million impressions on LinkedIn. It takes me less than four hours. 

It takes me 30 minutes. I produce much better posts because I have a thought companion that I can collaborate with on, okay, what arcs can we actually approach this narrative that I want to talk about right now? What amazing hook can we have? 

Give me five options. Let's go that direction. Let's go that direction. Let's try to work on the first intro, et cetera. 

I have Shakespeare. We have 1.5 million impressions. Then what we have basically is 15,000 reactions to every post that I have. 

That's a lot of engagement. We have the observer, which actually monitors these leads and surface up hot ICP leads from the posts that people are engaging with. If you go one step below that, we have the connector, which basically monitors my connection request. I get 300 connection requests each day. 

Basically, I have an agent that monitors these connection requests and surface hot opportunities reaches out to them so I can pick it up only whenever there's a reply, basically. Then if you go one step below that, we have the hunter on our website. If you rented our website but you didn't sign up, the hunter is going to spot you. If you're a hot lead, then expect a message, a personalized one from me. If you reply, then I get into the loop and we can start the conversation. 

R, B2B on steroids. 

On mega steroids. It's like RB2B and Clay and OpenAI had a baby. They have LinkedIn automation builds into it. That's the hunter, basically. 

How do you stay out of LinkedIn jail with this? When you listen to the gurus, it's like any, any automation with LinkedIn, you're going to be aft. I don't believe you got to 300K in ARR by breaking rules and getting shut off. You're clearly thriving. How do you do it the right way? 

First of all, we obsess over LinkedIn constraints. We have a very opinionated way of approaching it also within our product itself because we sell agents to go to marketing. They operate on LinkedIn. We don't let you touch the capacity, the scale, anything. We have an algorithm and a queue. What it does, basically, it always looks at your queue because I'm always at maximum capacity. 

My state is always maximum capacity. I always have an algorithm on my queue that surface up the relevant leads in terms of date, relevancy, and how hot they are. It's an amazing opportunity. 

It can bump up other leads that are waiting in that queue. This is something that we operate in our backhand that we build for our customers and I use it for myself as well. 

I love it. It's super amazing. A really quick follow-up question is, when you started, what system did you have on day one? When you were like, hey, who starts this thing? Was it just LinkedIn? Was it LinkedIn and some? Are you using iPasses in the background? 

Are you referring to our product, LinkedIn and me, or the entire agent swarm? 

Not the agent swarm, but day one, I'm going to start this thing. The agent swarm type of thing and people going down an agentic path orchestration, what's good for them, they're built different than what you built. But day one, people are like, how do I get started on this thing? 

What we did was nothing new to AI agents. We did maybe the opposite of 99% of the world. We actually didn't look outwards. We looked inwards. We didn't ask someone which agent should I build. We didn't look at the hottest AI startups out there because we knew that 99% of them are BS. We just looked inwards and we had a challenge to solve. We started with a constraint that's the autonomous business model. We can't scale with headcount. So, okay, we can't hire someone to do it manually. 

How can we unplug that bottleneck just using AI agents? And it started as an iterative process. So every layer helped us discover another one. So I happened to have, it all started actually with the connection request. I started having so many connection requests and I said, okay, I'm just losing all of this volume. I can't even go and accept them because it's too much. 

I can actually even go to my LinkedIn inbox and accept them. So we said, how can we solve that? So we went in the Uni file. 

We went there as an API for connection requests, et cetera. What people don't understand is that you don't need AI knowledge to become an autonomous business, to become an AI operation expert. You just need business processes, ops, and no code expertise. 

That's all that is required to actually start building that muscle. And people are always looking for answers and quick wins outwards, but it all starts with a bottleneck. And then someone who's super clunky and scrappy, but wants to just fix it with some no-lo code automation and knows how to map that process, and that's all you need. So you start iterating with prompts, et cetera. You don't need to be a prompt genius to create an agent that understands who's the hot lead or not. 

Amos Finn, you're repeating everything Dale tells me every day. 

We have to do the same thing in our business, right? A lot of the things that we do is go to market. It's all scalable. It's like, how do you... What we started telling our clients is like... And it's a scary thing. 

Do you go traditional, go to market, or do you do this hybrid AI agentic? Because they've already gone down the traditional route. They didn't build from the ground up like you guys did and think about, I can't go higher 85 people. 

So now they're in this weird hybrid state where they're like, I need more topofunnel. I need more awareness of my product and service. But I can do... So I have this example. You can either go higher three content editors and build a bunch of derivative content off of an e-book, for example. Or you can start playing around with the agentic side, let it generate content for you, but generate an AI system. 

Like don't just use chatGBT, don't go use quad. You need to have a system in place to actually do that execution process for you. And then you can start weaning yourself off of potentially high cost hires that may or may not stay around through that process. 

Yeah, I think that most of the companies are playing the wrong game right now, which is like looking at roles, functions, processes. How can we automate them with AI? That is not the right type of thinking actually. And I think that type of thinking leads you to just trying to figure out outside who could help you with that, without really developing that AI competency inside of the company. 

And second of all, it has again that low glass ceiling of all you can do is just have something a little bit worse but cheaper. That's what you're looking for. What you need to do is to reimagine fundamentally how can that process look like with human AI collaboration at the core. And so we believe that SMDs are actually much well positioned for the LLM revolution. That's the autonomous business concept. 

We believe that they have the ability to restructure their entire DNA around human AI collaboration. But enterprises as well, they have, as I see it, like two routes. They have the painless route, which leads to very mediocre performance. And they have the painful route, which leads to exceptional performance. The painless is taking their same processes, not trying to really innovate from within, but taking the same system that they have and try to put AI on top of it so they can have fewer employees doing the same amount of output. 

That is a painless, mediocre outcome. But the painful, exceptional outcome comes from reimagining these processes from the bottom up. Maybe they need to open a new sub-org within their go-to-market team, so a new SDR team that could actually build that culture from the ground up. Maybe they can't even take their own team and change it. They need to start it from the bottom. It's a painful route, but that would actually lead to that 100x improvement to the fact that they won't be left behind when their competitors become AI-nated. 

People are too scared. It's a scare. The mindset shift is not like people are scared. 

Sorry, Adam. No, you're fine. This is all great. I want to pivot slightly. So I agree with everything that you're saying. But there is this kind of wave right now of teams that are jumping on this AI bandwagon, specifically for AI outreach, right? Like AI SDRs, and even whether it be AI linked in responders, but really taking it to the extreme of AI cold callers, which by the way is illegal. AI SDRs, AI AEs, AI sales enablement, you name it, it's AI. 

Where, in your opinion, where's the disconnect between expectation and reality of what should be versus what people think they should be doing? People buy from people. That's why companies who invest in meaningful connections win. The best part? Gifting doesn't have to be expensive to drive results. Just thoughtful. Sundosa's intelligent gifting platform is designed to boost personalized engagement throughout the entire sales process. Trust me, I let sales first in the so competitor, and I could tell you, no one does gifting better than Sundosa. If you're looking for a proven way to win and retain more customers, visit Sundosa.com. 

Yeah, so first of all, this spam cannon approach, it's nothing new. So in the GTM space, since maybe 2010, like 15 years ago, we had the sales automation golden era. So there was a specific point in time where spamming prospects were valuable. It was maybe 15 years ago. And since then, it's not that valuable to spam prospects, and the value of spamming prospects just decreases very steadily over time. And AI just takes that momentum and amplifies it. 

So, okay, spamming, we had personalization, we had actually SDRs at a lower cost, so you can always outsource your SDR function and have cheaper output for lower quality. That's something that existed. So it's nothing new. It's just a continuation of long-lasting trends. 

AI is the new offshore? 

Yeah, exactly. It's just... I blame marketing for all of it. It's always started like marketing automation, started like this big trend, and like marketing will completely destroy anything that is getting any little bit of like traction. 

Yeah, so I actually think daily that every software way promised sales teams to give them more human interactions, but actually left them with more system interactions than human interactions at the end. 

And it's all because these companies have great marketing and go-to-market teams that eventually try to educate the market about a way to approach it, but it's only a moment in time where you have that alpha and it just disappears. And so I just want to get back to the AI SDR analogy here. What we're seeing is the first wave of AI applications. Okay, that is the first wave. So Steve Jobs calls the first wave of a technology revolution as skeuomorphic design. 

What does it mean? Skeuomorphic is a bad name, but it means that the first wave tries to mimic what we have just by putting that new tech on top of it, basically. So it lacks the creativity and understanding of this new technology. When we look at websites, for example, when websites came, so the first wave, we had Barnes & Noble, a bookstore said, yeah, let's put all our books on a book catalog on the internet. It was like a read-only website. And they were pretty early to that revolution, but they just, they had a read-only website, but look at our books. 

This is what we have. But then came the second wave of Amazon who imagined a digital native bookstore. And we know where these two companies are. So what we're seeing here is the same unfolding of AI. So the first wave, we have SDRs, let's create AI SDRs. 

We have support, let's create AI support agents. It's like, let's do the same thing just in a shittier way. But the second wave, which is what Swan promised to bring to the world, is a different use of the technology when we try to reimagine that process with human AI collaboration. And so what we bring to the table at Swan that is extremely different than all these AI SDRs, is actually we look at ourselves as an AI go-to-market engineer. 

Okay. So we are actually a platform that, it's an agent that can help you build agentic motions for your business specifically. What we believe is that GTM Alpha comes from differentiation, not from being better or more activities, it comes from being different. And so we're moving from an era where there was an app for this where SaaS, you know, solve use cases and build features for use case to an era where AI agents build solutions for you, for your business. And the AI go-to-market engineer helps you build agentic GTM motions that fit your go-to-market DNA. If you're a cold-calling organization and you have a unique understanding of your buyers and messaging and positioning, etc., then you need that AI GTM engineer resource to build an agentic motion that supports your cold-calling. You don't need an AI SDR that will replace your callers because you're doing a good job. You just need to amplify that. So how can you find something that will double down your cold-calling efforts? 

You need an AI GTM engineer. And so what we're promising is finally from, you know, SMBs and go-to-market teams that have bent around their tech stack, finally your tech stack bends around your business. 

The value equation, like, it's always been a value equation thing. And, you know, the differentiation piece, I think what is happening today, people are just trying to differentiate anyway they can't, they don't know how to differentiate and they forget about, like, the fundamentals. Like, why did your product or service come to market? What's that value proposition? And why should your buyer care about it? 

Now, how do you come in? Build it and they will come. 

Juan did that, right? Build it and they will come. One of how many tens of thousands that actually have an idea and a product that is so good that people do see it and they're like, 

oh, I won't talk. I will actually disagree, guys. We didn't build it and they come. So we had a, and it's just because it's such a core asset. When I talk to young founders and the number one tip that I actually give them is product class. 

Okay. So we've, in the last, you know, 20 years, it was all about building an MVP, right? That's the old startup label, right? And so the old startup label was built in MVP, it was built around it. And so what happened, it became more and more expensive to actually build that, you know, start-ups, raise more and more money to actually do it, etc. 

And we ended up at that growth at all cost label. What's happening in the last five years, which is interesting, is building products became super easy, but going to market became super hard because the fight over attention is the hardest thing to do right now. And when you're, what we're entering is an extreme mode of that situation when you have these, you know, AI developers like lovable and base 44, and you can build an app, everyone can build your app in no time. 

The hardest thing is actually to take it to market. And so we built Swan, our product we built at last. First, we built a movement around the autonomous business concept. And we started by that. And I grew my LinkedIn followership not because people love our product, not because people use our product, but because they believe in this new concept of scaling with intelligence, not with headcount. And the autonomous business movement, when I talk about it, I don't mention Swan and how we leverage intent to generate pipeline. That's not what I talk about. 

That's boring. What I talk about is the future of, you know, of business operations and the operating system of a business with human AI collaboration at its core. So we actually built the movement first and product last. 

It's the story arc that people get enamored with. And you need to build that story arc so that they understand where they are and where they should be going. And if they don't get there, their customers will get there and they'll eat their lunch. And so. 

Yeah, I agree. I want to double down maybe last thing on what Adam said that, you know, one out of tens of thousands of businesses can generate sustainable growth from a good product. 

That generate sustainable growth from a very good product. That's like, it's not even a unicorn. It's much, much more rare than that. And so what people need to invest more, and I feel like it's getting a lot of really overlooked in GTM specifically is in your story. People today fall in love with a story. They fall in love with the people behind that story. 

They don't care about brands anymore. And people should start embracing that because if you're not doing a really good job on your story and on the people behind that story, the faces of your story, then you're leading a very hard work for your sellers. 

Totally agree. We talk about this all the time. It's the origin story. It's the value prop. It's tying it together. And what is the problem you solved for your prospects in 30 seconds or less? And what made you want to do this? 

I couldn't agree with you more. And we talk in sales. Like forget like founding a company and building a product, but we often say the best sellers are the best storytellers. They're able to take a complex or simple problem, build a story around it that resonates and makes you feel deeply sales as the transference of feelings. So like exactly what you're saying, the story. 

Yes, don't get me wrong. Although I will say, I was going to say you don't have to have a great product. But you do. You can't have a shit product. There are some companies that have shit products that can be successful for a certain amount of time, but eventually that comes out. Put a great product with a fantastic story, a charismatic founder, a great sales team, use AI to leverage that. And I love what you said about not having AI for the use case, but having AI for you. So the difference of using AI versus building AI. This is where I think go to market is going. And I think very few people are getting it right. 

Awesome. One more question that will go through a couple of fun things. I'm trying to decide what question I want to ask you. And I think this one makes more sense first. So rebuilding GTM from first principles. We talked about this a little bit. My understanding is you built GTM several times. How to change and how you approach it. 

And I'm going to follow it up with a couple of questions. What beliefs about GTM have you completely dropped? Like what is like that complete bullshit? What does your team not do that most startups do? And I think I know a lot of that answer. And then what would you never outsource again? 

Interesting. Okay. So let's break them down one by one. These are big questions. 

Like one at a time. Big questions. So I feel the pressure. I feel the heat. So first of all, one thing that I've learned, maybe the most fundamental one is that 

playbooks can take you very short distance. So if you're always looking at others people playbook, then you're always a step behind everyone basically. Or maybe the competitors. It depends where you want to be. And if you feel like being the 10th or 100th player in your space, then that's okay. And then learning playbooks is important. And you need to keep up. And so depending on what is your goal as a company, you need to actually align to that. When you're building a startup, then usually you're trying to be the best. 

And if you're not, maybe if you're building like a regular business, a lifestyle business, then learning the playbook is okay. Okay. But what I realized is that when you try to become the number one player in your space, everything becomes easier. 

Okay. So that being number one mentality, unlocks everything for everyone basically. And if you try to settle down from being number five, then everything becomes harder basically. And just becoming number five is much harder. So the playbook will get you to the 10th, number 10 at maximum. Right. So you need to actually reinvent the playbook by understanding your unfair advantage as a founder, as a GTM leader, and as a company. 

And so if you don't understand what is your unfair advantage and you don't build your playbook according to that, then you'll end up number 10, number 100. Maybe you'll just close the business. 

I like that. Yeah. I think the playbook can be super overrated. 

What will you never outsource again? So I will never outsource, you know, like pipeline generation as kind of like a service. Right. If someone promised me leads, right, so like I will generate the pipeline for you. It's like outsourcing your product manager. Like yeah, maybe I'll have a product manager that just tells me what to build for my company. And then yeah, you should build an AISDR. 

I would say, okay, you're right. I will build an AISDR. That's a good advice. 

Thank you. It's not like that. Basically, you need to understand the top of the funnel. It's like building, so Brian Helligan, you know, CEO founder of HubSpot, he has this notion of looking at go-to-market as a product. I love it. Okay. And I feel like, you know, you have this notion of go-to-market, market fit, right? Like product market fit. And you need to iterate on that. 

You always need to understand how do you find the perfect motion, right? And that starts from the top of the funnel. And so you can't outsource that top of the funnel to someone who would just, you know, bring you lead. You can work with experts, with consultants to help you develop that in-house. Maybe you want to use, you know, specific capabilities outside of the company. So like if you want to reach a massive scale and you have an agency that can send, you know, millions of emails a month, so you can outsource that and use that capability if you'd like. But don't ever think about, you know, just letting someone, you know, generate pipelines for you. 

I would venture to say even doing what you do and your company doing what you do, you still get those pitches all day long of, hey, I could generate 10 leads for you per day and you only have to pay $22 per lead. 

Like, and it shows like if you're targeting is this pit poor, I'm certainly not going to trust you to do it for me. All right, we are, we're coming up on time. Let's jump into some fun rapid fire. I feel like we could go for another hour. 

Unfortunately, the show is only supposed to be 30 minutes, but we're, we likely need to change that. Emma, what's one part of your tech stack other than swan that you would never trade or give up? 

That's easy. I would say Claude from Anthropic, like it's a chat-to-bc alternative. So without it, I will feel like I would lose my arm, basically. 

I just recently started doing a lot more in Claude than chat GPT. I used to be the opposite. And I think they each have their use goes chat. Chat GPT can't design shit. Like can't format anything for its life, whereas Claude gets it right almost every single time the first time. 

Claude is really good at content writing, by the way. Yeah, good to know. 

Finish the sentence in three years. Sales development will be. 

We'll not be called sales development. What will be called? So I believe that the future is like full life cycle growth operators that they care about what I call sticky revenue. 

Okay. So sticky revenue is the end goal of your business. And when you have sales development and you have MQ people like marketing are in charge of MQL. 

And that's it. And sales development are in charge of meetings booked and AEs are in charge of meeting quota. And CS are in charge of retention. What you get is like this misalignment of incentives that really breaks the funnel down into like a zero sum game. And when you look at like the persona that can orchestrate context around different types of places, but all they care is about sticky revenue like I do as a single person operator, I care about if I look at a bad lead, I will never close that meeting. 

I can look at it as a demo and I see that's a bad lead. I won't, I won't close it as a customer actually. And also if I'm a CS and I see a customer that reaches out for a question, I can understand this is an opportunity for an upsell. So the fact that I have that context all across the board because I use AI agents, not because I'm a Superman, brings the ability to increase sticky revenue. And that's what you really want as a business. 

Sticky revenue. Love it. 

What are, what's one common startup best practice that you absolutely actively avoid and stay away from? A.D. 

testing. A.D. testing is a terrible idea for startups. So basically the only advantage of a startup, the only one, there's only one advantage that startup has against an enterprise, against incumbents and that's decision making velocity. A startup can make much more decisions in a given week than an enterprise. All the rest, an enterprise has an advantage over a startup. 

Okay. And so the fact that your only unfair advantage is having better decision making velocity, A.D. testing hurts that ability because it slows down your ability to make decisions. So instead of doing an experiment, measure it over a period of time and then deciding what to do, go with your intuition, try to measure it. If it fails miserably, do something different. But decide. 

You could do that with AI much easier than you could do that with hiring three people. So I think that is a really key part of moving fast and going forward. What scares you more, going too fast or going too slow? 

No, going too slow, going too slow. Definitely going too slow is not even from a CEO perspective, from a personal perspective, that's my biggest fear. Drowning in stagnation. It's where I feel like I'm at the least of my prowess and when it's hyper growth, that's where I shine. I'm good. I'm very resilient. So I don't really, I'm not afraid with hyper growth. 

I love it. You have two little swans behind you, yes? 

Yeah, they just flew in. Second time. 

I noticed them about halfway through. Are there more swans in the house? 

Yeah, they are everywhere basically. And you know, everyday passes, you'll see more and more swans. We believe that the unicorn playbook is dead. No one really wants to build a unicorn. It's about valuation inflation. It doesn't really about value. Building a swan, it's actually about value creation. It's about ARR per employee. It's about starting as the ugly duckling where you don't get these massive funding rounds and massive tech crunch headlines, but you grind, you build real value, real ARR per employee, and then you become this elegant aerodynamic beast. 

And that is a great place to end it. And that is a take I agree with. Amos, thank you so much for joining. Folks can find you of course on LinkedIn, getswangetswan.com. Thanks so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as we did. 

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