Episode #109 Disney+ to AI Marketing Powerhouse: B2C Lessons That Will Disrupt B2B ft. Swati Paliwal

What happens when you take a marketing leader who’s run campaigns for Disney+, Hotstar, Flipkart, and MX Player… and drop her into the fast-paced world of AI startups? Meet Swati Paliwal, Head of Marketing at Sprouts AI, who’s proving that the boldest B2C storytelling tactics can supercharge B2B go-to-market strategies.

In this episode of Bridge the Gap, Swati reveals:
 • The B2C marketing secrets that work even better in B2B
 • Why AI is changing the rules of attention and brand strategy
 • How to build inbound-led outbound systems that actually close deals
 • The hidden metrics B2B marketers are missing
 • The right way to align sales, marketing, and the CEO’s vision

If you’re serious about building a brand people actually notice — and turning that attention into pipeline — this is your playbook.

Follow Swati: https://www.linkedin.com/in/swatipaliwal1/

PS - huge shout out to Sendoso for sponsoring our show.

We could not do this without you.

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ZoomInfo is also a proud sponsor - check them out here!

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Transcript

This is Bridge the Gap powered by Revenue Reimagined, the podcast where we dive into all things revenue. Each episode, we bring you the top founders and go-to-market leaders to challenge how you think about growth and help you bridge your biggest go-to-market gaps. I'm Adam Jay. And I'm Dale Zwizinski. 

As always, thanks for hanging with us. There's a million ways you can be spending your time and we're grateful for you choosing to spend it with us. Be sure to check out our newsletter if you want the show notes and tactical advice on how to bridge your GTM Gaps. Let's get to it. 

Welcome back to another episode of the Bridge the Gap podcast, powered by none other than Revenue Reimagined. Today's guest is Swathi Paliwal, who is the head of marketing at Sprouts AI and a force in the intersection of media, tech, and modern go-to-market. She's led campaigns for Disney Plus, Hotstar, scale digital growth at MX Player and Flipkart, and now she's helping AI-native startups rethink how they tell stories, build demand, and win attention in a world of infinite content. 

Hint, we're going to talk about what works in B to C that likely will work even better in B to B. So if you're trying to blend art and science, logic and emotion, brand and behavior, she's done it across all industries. And now she's going to show us what GTM storytelling actually should look like. Welcome to the show. 

Thank you so much, Adam. I'm feeling kind of slight pressure there. I mean, you give such an amazing introduction. I don't know if I can do justice to what you asked me, but I'll try my best. 

Listen, the bar on this show when you have Dale and I as the host is really low. So if you can level up Dale, which is not hard, you've already won. 

I totally agree. I totally agree. So let's jump right into it. From streaming to Sprouts AI and doing this with marketing without a script. So you didn't come up through traditional SaaS. You came up through media content storytelling, which by the way, I believe is way underrated and is the next evolution that we're coming, not only from marketing, but also from sales. So what pulled you into go to market from your storytelling world? 

All right. I think it was the people. So working with Karen, Karen is the founder for Sprouts. And I have worked with Karen in the past. And I was heading marketing for a TVF, which again, Karen was the CEO of, and we built a product there. Then during my Disney stint also, I happened to interact with Karen. 

And when he built this company, he wanted me to head marketing. So it's really simple. It wasn't about what I'm doing more so about the people that I'm building this with. 

And that's what it boils down to. And the team that we built together Sprouts was absolutely wonderful. And the full people that we've worked in the past with and who could understand that vision. 

So I think Karen saw it in my thought also here with this, that anybody who's thinking of GPM, thinking of GPM in a very B2B-style structured way, which is thinking emails, thinking data, thinking ABM. And here we are. He said that I want you to bring in that storytelling video experience that the way you're structuring a product, because it's any way product. 

It's content, but it's product at the end of the day that we're working on. So I was heading the PNL for three geographies per se for Disney Hot Star, which was Canada, Singapore, and UK. And so the entire PNL responsibility was there. So the product was definitely a part of the marketing piece. 

So hence, the Rift happened. I guess I was more people-driven rather than thinking what I'm going to do. I was lost in the starting honestly with all the abbreviations. It took me some time to get used to the abbreviations, because there we are like Mao and Dao, which is DaU and MAU must be active users. And here it's suddenly ARR and MRR. So it's a shift. We do have similar terminologies, but there were certain different ones as well. And yeah, it took some time. 

It is very interesting. Monthly active users, I think it's lost in B2B. So even if you're in the B2B space, monthly active users are very important for the viability of your product or service. So I think bringing that in cross-functionally from a B2C world makes a lot of sense. And if you have a cheat sheet of all those terminologies for Adam, you'd really appreciate it. Yes. 

I'm excited for that. That is not nice. I know what MAU and DaU is. I think a lot of B2B SaaS companies get it wrong by not looking at that. It's like, oh, we build this product. We sign up this customer. That's great. Do they use it? Are they logging into it? What are they using? Maybe you look at that and you could fix some of your churns problem. 

Yes. I think product engagement is a big thing in B2C and it's very, very important for us. And product engagement is tagged to the extent of days of usage and how many times a day you're using the product. 

I mean, that's how deep you go into it. But I don't think B2B is missing the beat there, but the GTM motion, if it's PLG, or if it's sales led, that's how you structure it. So if it's more PLG, I think you do look at these metrics otherwise it's not viable. However, when the motion board stays led, the ACVs are higher. Now that was a new one, ACV, because we have very fixed pricing when it comes to B2C product. So, yeah, the ACVs are bigger if you're targeting mid-market enterprise clients. The sales cycles are different. So hence, the metrics are very spread across the board because of a varying ACV. And that was the difference. 

But, yeah, now I'm kind of comfortable with the whole abbreviation, but that was a big change for me. The metrics, the KPIs, they make the similar things, but we are looking at it in a different way. 

But in B2C, you guys are probably gathering data a lot more precisely. I think in B2B, one of the biggest challenges that they have is not being able to gather that data precisely enough, especially in the startup world. So one of the things that I'm curious about was what was the most unexpected part for you stepping into an early-stage tech company from a marketing perspective? 

Yeah, I think coming from the hot-star marketing ecosystem where everything is very structured and the pace, I think the pace was the most important thing. The pace at which we were doing things in Disney was very long. I mean, I used to plan for months and then the final thing used to happen after six months. But the pace here is, yeah, and the pace here was really fast and I think with AI, the pace is getting crazier because you can just... And I think that was your post. That's what you wrote about Adam the other day. And when you talked about that, how quickly you can deploy solutions. 

You don't have to wait to activate your certain accounts. You can test theories. And pace was one of the most different things. Another thing was while building the product, when you're building a product, a startup product, you're more concerned about how users are... like user experience and the matrix that matters is that whether we are able to give the end result to the user. However, working with Disney Hot-Star, we were tracking a lot of engagement metrics within the product, which is not a product priority when you're building in a startup ecosystem. So that was very difficult for me to get used to because for me, marketing meant data. It meant how many people came in and not just sign up. 

Why we started stopping at sign up? What activity have they done? How deeply are they using the product? But I think it took us some time to get there. But these are the kind of insights that we can use to help us understand the user and target better with more insights around our users. 

So I think the insights thing is super interesting, right? And I think that ties into... in order to get those insights, you have to be able to capture attention. And I want to call this kind of like, AI isn't the threat, it's the test, right? So you've written that AI is making everything abundant, except attention. What does that actually mean in practice? 

So actually, the thing is that the volume is easier to get volume out of AI, but how do you really get... So when we talk about content, this statement is absolutely correct, that there's abundance of content, but human behavior itself is changing. So I don't know if I'm answering your question correctly, but the way we are doing... So just to give you an example of change in human behavior, is the way we are doing search. Now, just a year or two years from today, like two years back or a year back, when we search, we scan through links, we open links on new tabs, we scan through those pages, we build up an answer in our heads, and then we felt good or bad about that answer. I don't know if we searched again, or we went to the next page of Google. That's how we searched. Now, marketing or GTM has to evolve with consumer behavior, and that's how I look at it inherently. Now, just taking this example, now the way we are searching is completely different. Now we put in a question, we have the answer. 

All of that exercise and activity that went into getting that answer is zero because of AI, right? Now, looking at it from a marketer's perspective, brand becomes important. We are already seeing this shift to zero click marketing happening, and a lot of brands are seeing their traffic go down because earlier the blog used to answer that question. Now, the answer is given by AI. 

The question is, was your blog answering, cited for that answer or not, so that eventually when the user is ready, okay, now I want to look at the products or I want to get them out, then your name comes up. So the game has completely changed. You don't get the... You need to catch LLM's attention rather than the user attention when it comes to content, and that's how I look at it. 

So I think... Go ahead. 

I was going to say, but are we going into a place where the AI is giving false positive reinforcement to people? So what I mean by that is they're giving you what you think you want to hear, and people are taking that as gospel versus thinking what's the next question. Did I really ask the right question? Because you're only getting the answer to maybe a shitty question. Maybe you asked a bad question, and you're getting a bad answer. So I'm curious your perspective on that. Is there AI bias happening in the answers that are being received? 

100%. I completely and 100% agree with that. And there was a recent research which said that the answer that you get from AI today... Say for example, you get AI to write a blog post for you, and maybe you wrote a blog post two years back without AI, right? And this one that you got from AI is 10 times shittier than what you did without AI. You are, as a human being, more happy with the result that you received from AI. 

And that answers your question, Dale, that it's basically the human... It's magical. It's like I feel I have something... 

I'm saying something and it's happening. It feels magical, but when you check into it, when you check yourself, and that's how we need to train ourselves to use AI better, because when you get into asking it, next set of questions, re-prompt, ask AI itself to validate its results to get better results. And the solution that I have for the same is, I do not depend upon a single LLM. So what I teach also when I talk to students or anyone who wants to learn how to do AI marketing, for complexity, GPT and cloud, like a combination of the three of them, running each their answers, getting the one LLM to check the other LLM's answers, so that it's like a team of LLM keeping a check on each other's answers. That's what solves for that problem that you talked about, and that's what I would tell all marketers to do. 

Yeah, there's so many who rely on one source, and then the hallucinations come through, and you're not validating, and it's taken me time even to realize, like certain LLM's, certain models are just better at other things than others, right? Like, know what model is great for what. What, in the AI world now, what signals tell you that a constant play is working versus something just happened to go viral? 

So, virality has too many angles to it. I mean, it just needs to connect with people, and plus it's a very algorithm play is also very, very important, how much of the story driven it is. And the thing is the kind of content also that picks up and goes viral is not something which, how frequently have we seen branded content really get picked up and go viral? 

There's a lot of push that happens behind it. So, media content definitely goes viral in a given content, but there's a huge amount of money that goes into it. Like, I was telling someone that, you know, you see these songs come up top of the chart. Most of these songs have, I mean, hundreds and thousands of dollars pumped into it, and activations happening across meme pages, across Instagram handles, across TikTok handles, and the amount of effort is actually insanely crazy. So, it's not what we see might just not be viral if it's branded. There's a lot of thought structure and money spent there as well. 

So, it's not purely organic. However, when I say content, now when I look at content, I talk in B2B context and I talk about sexual content particularly. I have started analyzing what content is getting cited by perplexity, by stratGPT when it's pulling together that answer. And then I run a deep analysis in Claude because, okay, that's how I structure my LLNs. Perplexity is great for search. 

It's like hitting directly at Google and crazy amazing results, which perplexity labs have really done a way better job. And Claude is simply amazing at analysis. GPT doesn't even match the analysis that I can run at Claude. 

So, Claude, then I utilize for analyzing those links and telling me why this link is different and why this one's not. But GPT, again, is created content writing and creation. So, all of this research, when it flows into GPT, then, so we have a whole playbook that we utilize to get content out. And then that content getting distributed is important. So, once you've written a great piece of content, it's not okay to just sit there with hosting it on your website, making sure if you can get the correct backlinks from sources which are getting cited today in LLNs, in Google AI mode, that's equally important. And that might, again, if it's not completely organic, there's an inorganic element of pumping in money there and buying those links. But the content needs to be relevant if you need to be cited in the right sources. 

Yeah, that's a lot. It'll be good. I'll hold different mindsets. Sorry, Del. 

Well, it'll be very interesting because it's similar to what's happening with all SEO, right? Because it's not about being found on the web. It is for certain people, but there's a whole new world about being found in LLN. Like you were saying earlier, you ask a question, you go to get an answer. If you're asking a question about a certain product or feature or whatever, you want to be found as part of that LLN. So it'll be interesting to see how Google plays into this space with Gemini because they do have the advertising background in the back of it where some of the other LLNs don't. 

However, not a lot of people use Gemini as explicitly you're talking about Proplexi and Quad and GPT. Let's move a little bit into GTM strategy. So what's one decision you've made over the last year that defined how marketing impacts pipeline? 

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Marketing would basically take care of all the different channels. I mean, I think channel ownership is what something that we start looking at. There's obviously email as a channel and via-sale, I think, channels because that's what I brought with me. That's a baggage that I brought with me from B2C as well because channels are very important. 

How much are you investing into a particular channel? So email, it's demand-driven email outbound. That was one big channel for us, but we started developing inbound as well. 

Now within inbound, again, there were different channels. There was social, there was this LinkedIn live ecosystem that we created. Then we wanted to do community as well, wherein we started getting active in existing B2B SaaS communities like Pavilion, there are a lot of good ones. So there were different channels and within those channels, then we had certain place that we kind of activated. We experimented with some work for us like LinkedIn. Hot leadership was also another one that we experimented with. 

So yeah, I mean, I brought in the channel piece. LinkedIn live is something we do. LinkedIn live that sprouts. That is a great inbound channel for us. 

Outbound remains one of the best channels that it was for us in demand-driven because inherently we are a product which basically gives you insights on your data. Over time, we realized that data is super dirty, super unseen in terms of how you're saving it. Like when we plugged in CRM, we start plugging in Salesforce for a particular client. To enrich the data, the amount of data overlap was insane in terms of what they had saved in Salesforce and what the new data said in terms of the updated email ID, whether the person is still in the company or not, and even other signals. So signals, this is what we built into our product wherein account level and contact level, you get signals enriched on accounts as well as contacts. And then you can do your outbound in a very structured way. 

In a way that it's inbound-led outbound, I think that's the word that's the term that RB2B founder, he coined inbound-led outbound. So I would quote him on that, but that's precisely what we have solved for in Stout. And that channel works best for us. 

So when you... I love inbound-led outbound. I think Adam Robinson was spot on with that. We talk about that all the time. I think in today's market, and Dale, you were saying this just the other day, I think with one of our new clients, like we could hire all the great sales reps in the world, build the best emails, the best call scripts, put them on the phone and tell them to go dial. If you have no brand awareness, no signals, no one knows who you are, it's literally like me calling you out. It is. It's me calling you out of the blue to sell you something that may or may not be relevant. 

And who the heck are you? So if you could shift that and build that awareness and create this inbound-led venue outbound, that is where I think go-to-market and marketing is going now. 

So we went a step ahead. I mean, I just would like to add something there. Please. What we realized. Yes. So we were doing... We started with pure outbound and I said that I do feel that there is a certain over. Accribution is something that I feel instead of like solving for a problem. And that I realized while talking to a lot of our customers as well. 

It becomes an inherent thing between marketing, sales and demand-gen team wherein you're all fighting for that attribution of that particular lead going to one particular person. So instead of that, we kind of put in a system wherein we were doing a lot of marketing-led outbound also. As there was this inbound, we could scrape website visitors to our website and we could actually see who visited our website. And to them, we were sending out playbooks, content. We were sending out invites to our LinkedIn live. 

We were even inviting a couple of folks we felt who had a great fit and who could come on to our lives. And then the outbound was happening. We saw a direct overlap. So we saw that at least 60% of our leads have had or the accounts have had some engagement with the marketing ecosystem. 

Now, this is the one that we could really tap into and target. I mean, these are the folks who probably at least build up a form or interacted, engage with us on LinkedIn. We were regularly scraping our LinkedIn engagement. 

We were scraping the LinkedIn engagement of our leadership team founders. So hence, we were doing all of that just to understand the overlap and the overlap was huge. And that's when we started working on playbooks wherein we were not selling in that first email. We were doing a warm up to our ecosystem and then taking... We had the data. 

We could pick up the phone anytime. But when we saw a warm up happening and a lead, somebody opening the email at least, coming to our website and seeing that kind of traction and then the outbound happening on them, like the outbound team hitting them with the calling, outbound calling, the results were better with them coming onto the demo calls. They had done their research and now they were comfortable with Proud's ecosystem kind of talking to them, essentially. 

Yeah, it's very interesting. I'm very curious because you come from the B2C world. How do you build alignment with sales and marketing without following into all the cliches? Like, oh, we just have to collaborate together. What's the tie-in, especially from a B2C perspective? 

All right. I think how the leadership is looking at KPIs, that's what it eventually does boil down to. So I think a difference in KPIs, if we are all chasing the same KPI of how many demo calls happened, how much revenue did we book, then it gets really difficult because then there is that fight for whether I get a fee in the fleet. And in B2C, the attribution was never one. So it was always percentage attribution to any lead. And that was what B2C cracked down on. 

I mean, there was first touch, there was last touch, there was how many touches that have happened. And there were platforms. We used Tableau, we used Looker, we had multiple analytics, heavy analytics ecosystems telling us everything that happened around this one particular individual and the journey they went through. So essentially every time they came to the website directly, that was given to Brand. And there's a huge heavy Brand spend that happens in B2C. B2C also does Brand spend, but it's more event-led. It's very differently structured, the Brand spend. Whereas for B2C, it's very common for B2C Brands to go pick up a billboard, do TV ads. 

So there has to be some attribution there as well. So any direct traffic, even online, used to go to Brand. Then there was ads. Then there was different kinds of ads. So the journey was mapped to an extent that the percentage allocation was pretty much to the TO. 

10% this much, 20% this much. And then we used to design on a model. So you had to, as a company, decide on whether it's first touch, which gets 50% attribution or last touch, which gets 50%. So one major attribution was given to either first touch or last touch. And then the attribution was divided across the different channels the individual has interacted with. 

And that's how detailed it was. Now, when we do that here, I think we can still build it for bigger companies when you have that money to spend on analytics and even have to build events within the product. Because then the product PLG, it has to be PLG. 

If it stays flat, it again gets difficult because there's manual intervention there. However, if we give an equal amount of weightage to which lead has come in, through which channel, if there's been some interaction, and that's how we started seeing it. So we started giving the top of the funnel matrix impressions, at least inbound impressions, website traffic, leads coming in, download happening, engagement happening across the ecosystem. Because it is a lot about conversations that we are doing and less about leads. So we started changing the internal terminology from leads to conversations. How many conversations are we doing? And these conversations can be around the LinkedIn live that we are doing, around the events that we are attending, all of those things. So these conversations, marketing, there was a lot of manual effort, honestly, that went into it initially, to making sure that we are scraping these conversations digitally from LinkedIn and recording them as much as we can if we are going in attending events. And then these conversations then turning into actual demos. And when it came to demos together, there was a combine, this thing between sales and marketing, which kind of led that piece. And at the end of the day, I think it boils down to people going back to my very first thing, why I joined the Starz ecosystem. 

It's not about let's collaborate. I do believe in each other enough that both of you, all three of you, or the five of you are doing everything that it takes to kind of get that lead to convert. If that belief and faith is there, I feel that it doesn't really matter, because then there is that trust. And you have your different core KPIs and you have shared KPIs as well. So, yeah. 

That is something I think people don't understand enough. There are shared KPIs and you have your own core KPIs. It's not just these are the four KPIs. So, let me ask you something. So, there's a lot of GTM teams that are in what we'll gently call transition. You've seen all sorts of different organizations throughout your marketing, you know, experience. What's the very first conversation marketing should have with the CEO, not with sales, but with the CEO? Where does it start? 

What's the CEO's core vision? I mean, and delve deeper from it like you're talking to an LLM, keep asking more questions. What's your core vision? The core vision is, oh, I want 100 million ARR. How do we reach there? 

What do we do? Okay, if it's I want the best product, which kind of gets wins the product of the award in this case, or change in the way the things are happening. Yeah, and, you know, like, I think that's what marketing needs to and that's what we miss. I mean, everyone says, hey, I can do this, I can do that, but no, it doesn't matter because you want what's best for the company. The KPIs remain the same. But how do you structure the KPIs? 

How do you prioritize resources because resources are not limitless is when you understand the founders and the CEO's vision and how he is thinking about it. And then there's a point where he will tell you that that's what I have hired you for. And that's when you stop. You're like, oh, I can take it up from there. I could have taken up it up from the very first question that what should be the objective be. But I would want the answers as much as I can and get him to a point where he tells me that now I am the driver. 

Yeah. So what's the vision going deep? Tell me more. And then what signals tell you whether it's B to C or B to B? What signals tell you that a brand is trying to fake strategy just by throwing money at it? 

If the product doesn't match up to the promise. 

I love that. Yeah. We've all been there and done that, haven't we, Dale? Yes. 

More than I would like to admit. 

Yeah. A little bit of vaporware. So, Fawti, as you switched over to B to B, what would you say is the most common mistake you see B to B marketers making that would never fly in the B to Z world? 

I think, okay. Mistake that B to B marketers make. I think it's in the whole gamut of script and pain point. It's become too playbook-y structured. I feel that B to B is so marketers as such are so used to the concept of playbook and buy. And we were doing playbooks. I realized when I started talking with a lot of marketers in B to B, playbooks, playbooks, we do this playbook, download the playbook. You're so married to that one playbook. It's great you've created a process and a playbook around it. 

But I feel sometimes you're too married to that process and you're not changing it on the go. Because B to C, you're dealing with such volume of people. And people are unique and different and the ICT is not that targeted. It is targeted, but it's not insanely targeted like having an account list and only these are the companies that I can tell you. In that case, playbook can be structured in a great way because it's a targeted, dedicated account list you're targeting. And that comes to an enterprise sales play and that's very different. 

But in general, a similar enterprise sales play, when you have this whole account list and only these many accounts can I target, it doesn't work that way when you're targeting SMB, mid-market and startup segments as your end customers. Then you play the people game. Then the playbooks needs to change. Then the playbooks need to be more free and be able to breathe. So I think that was because I myself probably tried to change a lot of bringing a lot of change to the playbooks that we had initially. 

And yeah, that breathing space really helps. And now with AI, adding on to what you said initially, we can do so much more, so much more experimentation. So I think that's what is needed. 

Oh, that's really good. 

Okay, Swati, how about some rapid fire? So much good. There are so many differences. 

How about we do some rapid fire as we wrap up here, come into the final stretch. Ten words or less for each of these. What's one piece of advice, what's one piece of career advice you wish more women heard in tech today? 

Don't get me afraid to ask questions. No question is stupid. I love that. 

Swati, what's one marketing trend that you're just over? Like it just needs to go away. 

Download this playbook, comment, download. 

Comment, hello, and I'll send you this free playbook that's going to get you $15 million in revenue. You just have to comment, hello, and I'm going to give it away for free. 

Yes, just don't have any. 

Fake engagement. Tell me about it, yes. 

Who's a marketer or GTM thinker more people should be learning from? 

Hmm. I think I would say Jason Lemkin. I follow his content. He's really good. And recently I've also started, I mean quite a few people out there. I quoted Adam Robinson. 

I mean, he talked about inbound, outbound, but then he also went, I mean, I had to take a smaller answer. But yeah, if I take one, Jason Lemkin, it's his fourth, I really like. But quite a few out there. 

And everyone who's doing built-in public on LinkedIn, I like to follow their content because sometimes they give your good insight onto how they crack something on their product. So, yeah. 

That's become a trend I'm shocked and never thought I would see in the whole building in public. What's one mistake you made early in your career that still stings, that when you look back at it, you're like, oh, that one still hurts? 

Leaving. So, when Flipkart in India was the exact replica of Amazon when Amazon wasn't there in the country, and I was building the Flipkart app. So, I was in the app ecosystem when we were launching apps way back in 2014. And that's when I did a career switch and I think that was something that had I stayed there, my career journey and track would have been very different. 

Okay, let's wrap this up a little bit. What's your dream vacation destination? 

Dream vacation destination, Bora Bora. 

Bora Bora. Nice. Have you been? 

No, of course not. 

No, listen, there's places that you could have been that were so good that that's where you always want to go back to. Bora Bora, thank you. 

Yeah, I would love to visit New Zealand again, but I think I have, I need to pick off Bora Bora first before I visit any other country again. Yeah, but that's a dream destination that I will definitely go to one day. 

I love it. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, for chatting about the differences in B2C and B2B and how if you really want to level up your B2B marketing, maybe just take a play out of the B2C playbook. 

Why not? 

Not a killing game. Thanks for joining the show. We appreciate it. Thanks so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as we did. 

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